http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat206.mp3 0:00-4:22: Greetings from Lost Lake Loop—okay, it’s actually Portland and San Francisco but we swear LLL (a location that sounds like a love interest for Superman when I abbreviate it like that) is actually…

http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat205.mp3 0:00-18:26: Greetings from Portland! More specifically, greetings from a basement in Portland!  And to run it into the ground, greetings from a basement in Portland where Jeff and Graeme both are at the same…

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[Please note: although we talk about so very many comics in this episode, I decided to pull images exclusively from the brilliant Transformers vs. G.I. Joe by Tom Scioli and John Barber. I accept full responsibility and apologize for any resulting cognitive dissonance.]

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0:00-21:06: Greetings from your tech-confused team (or as Graeme suggests far too late for our actual opening, RiRi Lester and Victor Von McMillan), who are dealing with a strangely loud recording.  Adjust your volume to taste, and buckle up, buttercup, as we start in on almost immediately on the exciting world of comic news (Marvel edition).  We cover Marvel’s announcements for its forthcoming Marvel Now! launch (a new Invincible Iron Man, a new Infamous Iron Man, new Champions title, U.S. Avengers, etc.,), the timing of their information release, etc. Discussed:  all of the above, plus: Jeff misunderstands Graeme’s use of the word singularity and so just parrots Graeme’s point; a casual invitation for a tech-talented Whatnaut to put the movie Interstellar to good use; Marvel has never had a black female writer ever; David Walker getting backing at Marvel; and more.
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21:06-43:42: A bit more about Iron Man, which Jeff has not been following at all, but Graeme as a reader is a little concerned that the teases that Bendis made when starting the book less than a year ago are already set to either be truncated or abandoned.  Discussed: abandoned storylines; Captain America: Agent of Hydra and Marvel editors and Marvel creators literally saying whatever they want, even if it bears no relation to reality, just to sell a book; Dr. Doom in name only; whether one of the characters in the Champions is a spoiler; and more.
43:42-50:11: After covering Marvel’s outwardly confident movement toward its next nonboot, and DC’s more conciliatory, albeit coded, approach to Rebirth, Graeme wonders if Marvel’s strangely rushed and off announcements have a lot in common with the DC You marketing blunders, which thank goodness at least gives us a little bit of time to talk about Midnighter by Steve Orlandao and ACO, which Graeme fully spoils but also makes sound very satisfying and great.  Also discussed: Black Canary; liking books enough to stick around; Bourne Identity Aquaman; and more.
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50:11-58:26: “You’re not reading the DC Rebirth books, right?” asks Graeme, gently, hoping to avoid a prime Jeff rant.  And that almost kind of works?  But Jeff has read the first two issues of Batman by Tom King and David Finch; but Graeme is really onboard with Aquaman after the events of the second issue.  Also discussed: the second issue of Batman, Jeff’s frustration and Graeme’s theory about the last page reveal; and more.
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58:26-1:10:46:  Graeme went on a back-issue spree at his excellent local store Cloud Nine Comics where he purchased almost the entire run of Hawk and Dove by Barbara and Karl Kesel, so Graeme gets to recap the history of the original Hawk and Dove, the second team from the late ‘80s, the very, uh, offbeat conclusion to the series, and a lot of discussion about DC’s Armageddon 2001, an event DC does not seem particularly keen to reprint and which *dove*tails with the end of Hawk and Dove.  Also discussed: Armageddon: The Alien Agenda; Zero Hour; and the punting of Captain Atom’s next series.
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1:10:46-1:35:01:  The other title Graeme of which bought a lot of back issues?  Marvel Fanfare, the prestige paper anthology/inventory title edited by Al Milgrom; “Every issue is an oddity,” is how Graeme describes it quite nicely but wow, some of these oddities!  An Angel story by Ann Nocenti and David Mazzuchelli, to name just one!  Also discussed: 80s Marvel vs. 70s Marvel; the delight that is the art of Tony Salmons; Trevor Von Eeden in the ‘80s which, of course, makes it all but impossible to avoid bringing up Dick Giordano, Robert Loren Fleming, and Thriller; an amazing Jim Shooter anecdote about Bill Sienkiewicz; spitballing new and exciting Patreon extras; Jim Owsley’s promotional material for The Falcon; and, hoo boy, more.
1:35:01-1:40:39:  And what’s Jeff been reading? He’s re-read and didn’t quite finish the remarkable Transformers vs. G.I. Joe by Tom Scioli and John Barber, having only made it up to issue #10 on this particular go round, but he has many positive things to say including the statement, “Transformers vs. G.I. Joe is the Paul’s Boutique of comic books.”
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1:40:39-2:00:52:  Unfortunately, Jeff was not nearly as impressed with Dark Night: A True Batman Story by Paul Dini and Eduardo Risso that he picked up on the long-ago recommendation of a certain nameless someone whose initials are Graeme McMillan.  Part of the problem is clearly Jeff’s expectations for the book, which is not entirely fair to the book, but there are other problems at work, insists Jeff.  Discussion ensues! (To the point of uncomfortable stridency on the part of Jeff.)
2:00:52-2:01:54: By contrast, Jeff read The Colonel Corps, the second issue of promotional DC/KFC (KFDC?) comics starring Colonel Sanders and the DC multiverse.  He thought it was pretty good!
2:01:54-2:29:14: And finally, to wrap up this edition of “Jeff’s Bad Faith Adventures,” after railing about the way the launch of Comixology Umlimited treated creators, he…signs up for Comixology Unlimited?  Jeff, what is up with that?  But also: what’s the deal with Comixology Unlimited? Discussed:  searching on Comixology Unlimited; Doc Savage Archives Vol. 1; As The Gods Will; the generosity of Chris Arrant; Hoopla (which, contrary to what Jeff says, will allow him to borrow graphic novels now); and more.
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2:29:14-end:  Closing comments, but with some bonus bits of commentary from Graeme about “Not Brand Echh”!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week:  Skip Week!  There are some crazy reasons but join us in two weeks for the next episode of Baxter Building, where we’ll be discussing issues #160 to #170 of the Fantastic Four!
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http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat203.mp3 0:00-2:28: Greetings from the Sleepy Duo, Graeme and Jeff!  One of is justified in their tiredness, one of them is not, but they still can manage to work up enough steam to discuss… 2:28-16:15:…

 

0:00-41:30: Greetings from the site of the Portland Prince Memorial Party.  (Well, party-adjacent, anyway.)  If that’s not enough of a tip-off that we’re not going to start talking comics right away, give yourself a gold star, Whatnaut, because we have a long, long trail of non-comics content to hike down!  Because this was recorded within an hour of Jeff getting back from a viewing of Federico Fellini’s La Dolce Vita, Graeme and Jeff give their takes on La Dolce Vita, 8 1/2, Nine, All That Jazz, Fellini’s proposed Sub-Mariner movie, Flash Gordon (both the 1980 film and the film serial from 1936), which Fellini movie is the Jeff movie and which one is the Graeme movie, Radiohead’s theme for Spectre, the video for Partyman, and molto, molto, molto di piu.
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41:30-1:05:12:  All that said (and we did indeed say a lot), we are a comics podcast, and maybe we should talk about those for a change?  Maybe?  For those of you who haven’t checked it out, Graeme wrote a very fine set of capsule reviews covering the week 1 and 2 of the DC Rebirth titles over on the website, which Jeff relies on a bit here to talk about some of the books we cover in our discussion, starting with Batman: Rebirth by Scott Snyder, Tom King, Mikel Janin, and June Chung. Also discussed: Superman #1 by Pete Tomasi, Patrick Gleason, and Mick Gray; Detective Comics #1 by James Tynion IV, Eddy Barrows, and Eber Ferreira, some grousing about which was lousier, Batman Eternal or Batman and Robin Eternal; and more.
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1:05:12-1:19:57: And from there, Jeff runs semi-quickly down the stuff he’s read recently and enjoyed including The Walking Dead issues #154 and #155 by Robert Kirkman, Charlie Adlard, Stefano Guadiano, and Cliff Rathburn; Spider-Man/Deadpool #5 by Joe Kelly, Ed McGuinness, Mark Morales, and Jason Keith; issues #5-#7 of The Sheriff of Babylon by Tom King and Mitch Gerads; and The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (V2) #8 by Ryan North, Erica Henderson, and Rico Renzi.  Also discussed:  Jughead by Chip Zdarsky and Erica Henderson; and Madwoman of the Sacred Heart by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Moebius.
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1:19:57-2:01:35:  And Graeme?  Graeme has some things to say about Sugar and Spike by Keith Giffen and Bilquis Evely, currently appearing in Legends of Tomorrow; Imperium by Joshua Dysart and Khari Evans (which Graeme calls “one of the best superhero books on the stands around); Something New: Tales From a Makeshift Bride by Lucy Knisley; and Rolling Blackouts by Sarah Glidden which Graeme does not hesitate to name as one of the books of the year.  Also read by Graeme:  The Keith Giffen/John Rogers/ Cully Hamner, Rafael Albuquerque, and others; and the first years of Uncanny X-Men after Whilce Portacio has taken over as artist; old Star Trek: The Next Generation comics published by DC; and the current Judge Dredd arc going on in 2000 AD and the Megazine.  [Also, my apologies to Graeme for not including images from all my books in these notes and none of his, really: there wasn’t a lot of overlap and this was stuff I could easily screenshot.)
2:01:35-end: Closing comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible. (Also, keep an ear out for some Platinum End grousing.)
 PlatEnd
Next week:  Baxter Building Ep. 18!  Read up on issues #147-159 of the first volume of Fantastic Four and join us!
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0:00-05:25: Greetings! Graeme and I are still recovering from our version of Civil War—the DC Rebirth #1 roundtable from just a few days back.  Fortunately, Graeme knows just what it takes to heal the wounds of battle: a story about  his friendly nieghborhood Chatty Cat!  (Chatty Cat No. 2, no less!)

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05:25-12:51:  From Chatty Cat No. 2, to comics we’ve read this week.  Jeff has not read much—although he quite liked Revenger and the Fog #2—and Graeme has read a lot, but some of it is still under embargo (for those of you that are wondering, no, Graeme did not go on to tell Jeff about the books off-air).  So instead we kinda bitch a bit about the difficulty of keeping track of what you’ve read on Marvel Unlimited and Comixology.  Discussed: what percentage of Graeme’s Comixology In Progress list is for work; Jack Katz’s First Kingdom; and spending hours in school drawing barbarian arms.
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12:51-30:03:  Speaking of squandering precious time, Jeff has been playing Marvel Future’s Fight on his iPad, but before he can get to the point of something he finds quite sad, we have to get through a brief history of RPGs, Diablo, and free to play games.  Discussed:  who the hell is Singularity; all of the above, plus the absence of The Fantastic Four and The X-Men; and Graeme having read Contest of Champions and loving it but being art-blocked on New Avengers; all those teams featuring Johnny Storm; and a moment of lovely humanity, courtesy of Gene Yang.

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Cap sketch by Cameron Stewart, modified slightly on Twitter.

30:03-48:00: We have listener questions!  And we do want to answer them, we assure you, but Jeff also kinda wants to talk about Hydra Cap, the big reveal that somehow managed to outshine—or at least consume as much internet chatter—DC’s big reveal in DC Rebirth #1.  Discussed:  Old school Hydra; The MCU’s Hydra and people’s conception of the Marvel characters; Ed Brubaker’s Captain America run; what will happen to Alan Scott in post-Rebirth; and more.
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48:00-49:40: “Graeme, are we ever going to get to listener’s questions?” asks Jeff.  Fortunately, we are!  Thomas Williams asks: “I’ve always wanted to know what Graeme thought of the last page ending of Archer and Armstrong. I thought it’s one of the best last pages of a series.”
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49:40-59:55: Ahmed Bhuiyan says:  “You guys have come a long way, I remember back in the day when the first half hour of each episode seemed to be you guys comparing juice fasts/cleanses. I kind of miss those to be honest. Anyways, on to questions! Answer as many or as few as you like of course.
1. Is the concept of a shared universe hurting or helping comics these days?
2. What work of Jack Kirby wouldn’t you recommend? (Thanks to you all and the Baxter Building segments I have been trolling eBay for the Fourth World Omnibii…only volume 2 left!)
3. Why are you two so awesome? Seriously, funny, insightful, and pretty relatable, despite how pretty hardcore do you analyze the story/creator, love it!
Keep up the great work guys, stay well, and tell Graeme to relax more and send Jeff some waffles, we haven’t had a Waffle Window update in ages it feels!”
59:55-1:13:31:  Adam Knave throws us this hypothetical: “You need to put people on the dc rebirth books. You can’t change the titles themselves, only creative teams. What are a few of your choices? (Besides giving me Super Sons, obviously…)”
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1:13:31-1:23:59:  Gary Katselas (LeonK) asks : “Gentlemen, it seems I’m one of the few people who enjoyed ‘Man of Steel’ and ‘Batman Vs Superman’ more than Marvel’s many film offerings, including the recently released ‘Civil War’ which has garnered widespread acclaim among mainstream critical circles. This irks me slightly because I am most assuredly a Marvel fanboy and I find their conservative production approach too constrictive to produce interesting results. I much prefer the operatic pretensions of ‘Batman vs Superman’ and the troubling uncertainty that was injected into the Superman mythos in ‘Man of Steel’ (as well as numerous moments of sheer filmmaking insanity). Which brings me to my question: having read very little in the way of DC comics, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what comic series or storylines (Superman, Batman or otherwise) most closely match these films in tone and thematic concern?”

1:23:59-1:29:21:  Devin King asks:  “My question: Why is Watchmen a bad movie? I know its reputation but can’t find any critical responses to it. I know the common reaction was that it tries too hard to emulate the book but…isn’t that supposed to be a good thing?”

1:29:21-1:34:35:  Check this out from Heath Edwards:  “Hey fellas, super huge congratulations on getting the 200th episode! If I may suggest a topic for discussion:
mutants = minority groups
versus
Inhumans = generation hashtag
How do the different methods of the mutants /inhumans getting their powers inform today’s readers of their own methods of empowerment?
Mutants gain their powers genetically (internal), whereas the inhumans gain their powers from the terrigen mists (external).
The mutants have no choice in their empowerment: “I was born this way”
Though, I can’t remember if there hasn’t been a story about subconscious choice being a part of the empowerment of the inhumans: “I am shy, I shall be a window” type thing
How, if at all, do these ideas play into contemporary empowerment?”
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1:34:35-1:42:09:  Hey it’s Gar Berner!  And he asks: “I just wanted to wish you two continued success on the podcast and your other endeavors and that I’m looking forward to the next 200!
My probably late question is:
Which Legionnnaire (from the Legion of Super Heroes, not the French army) do you most identify with?
The lack of Legion support by DC Comics is sad. Granted, it’s a concept a bit past it’s prime as you both mentioned. There is some angle or 2016 twist that needs to be unlocked for the LSH to be the success that it should.”
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1:42:09-2:01:01:  Here comes Levi Tompkins, you guys!  Levi has four big questions for us:
Q1 You guys have talked a lot about some of the weirdness that guys like Englehart, Claremont, and even Shooter have brought to comics do to their own particular sexual ideals and hangups.  Do you think that modern big 2 comics has divorced itself from that sort of thing, and if so do you think its better off for it?
(As someone who has been rather warped by things read in Claremont comics and other places as a kid its one of those things I think about a lot)
Q2 What would Modern Marvel events be like under people like Englehart or Kirby.  What would a Kirby Event look like?
Q3  With the Gotham Academy Lumberjanes crossover coming, any other non big two books you think it would be interesting to have crossover with the Marvel or DC?
Q4 Who are your favorite new Big 2 characters.  I find myself really adoring some of the newer X-characters, or Gotham Academy kids, any people from the last 10 years you adore and think could last?”
2:01:01-2:01:55: Maybe not a question per se, but Bruce Baugh has a beautiful white-hot burn:
“What we need is a little Wait What app that would grab from a list of Jeff’s favorite favorite nouns, with audio of him saying them, and drop into sentences of the podcast as needed. So when Jeff says “It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to, but not fully until the DC, yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for, hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in…”, We’d get “”It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to [recontextualization], but not fully until the DC [collection], yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for [Don Heck], hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in [editorial]…”
2:01:55-2:06:29:  And here’s the matching “question” from long-time chum of the podcast Robert Grzech:
“In light of the critical failure of BvS and Graeme’s on-air lukewarm reception and off-air distaste for the latest Captain America movie, I’m truly curious as to what your opinions are as to what exactly makes for a good comic book movie?
What are your expectations? Graeme doesn’t like Marvel in general so he’s not exactly the audience for Marvel movies. This makes me wonder why Graeme even went to Captain America, especially if he knew what he was going to get and went into it with what sounds like a predisposition to hating the movie. And if Graeme didn’t like Captain America, what exactly would he have done differently?  What would have made the movie work for him? I thought the movie was far better than the comic book version of Civil War. I realize this is all subjective, but Graeme’s shock (shock, I say!) that any reasonable person would like Captain America was frankly insulting. All he had to say was he didn’t like it because he’s Graeme.
I paid $5.95 to watch Captain America at a Saturday matinee. $5.95 for a 2 hour movie!  I was highly entertained. I’ve bought floppies for almost that much, which I’ve read in 10 minutes before throwing them into the garbage can. And no, it’s not 2 hours out of my life. I don’t want those 2 hours back or I wouldn’t have gone in the first place. I look at these movies as comic books brought to life, and Marvel does a decent job of staying true to the characters. If the characterizations are to be criticized because they seem stilted or cartoonish or underdeveloped, that’s because these are comic book characters!
If they had made these movies back when we were kids, we would have gone crazy. Yeah, I know, the technology would have sucked and the early Captain America movie was an obvious example of that. These movies are comic books brought to life. That’s how I look at them. Some are harder to watch than others (Fantastic Four and Green Lantern, I’m looking at you), but generally they have met and at times, exceeded my expectations. I’m not looking for The Godfather or Annie Hall here. Just entertainment for a few dollars.
Why so serious?
Relax and enjoy them or stay home.”
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2:06:29-2:22:22:  Chad Nevett, here is your question!  (Also, I apologize for being an absolute idiot!):  “I just finished your 200th episode and have a question for episode 201: I don’t remember either of you ever saying much about John Constantine or Hellblazer (maybe you did and I forgot or didn’t hear it, because I rarely listen — not because I don’t enjoy the podcast, purely because wife, kid, job, sleep, and everything else gets in the way), but what are your thoughts on the character/comics?”
2:22:22-end: Closing Comments!  You can tell Jeff is tired when you hear him go straight to the closing without the comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to our125 supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  is a skip week! Let your ears rest and recover, and then join us for Wait, What? Ep. 202!
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http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/BaxterBuildingEp17.mp3 Previously on Baxter Building: The old order changeth! Sue Richards has left the team — and her husband! (Feminism is to blame, and certainly not Reed Richards’ offensively paternal attitude, oh no.) She’s been…