http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat203.mp3 0:00-2:28: Greetings from the Sleepy Duo, Graeme and Jeff!  One of is justified in their tiredness, one of them is not, but they still can manage to work up enough steam to discuss… 2:28-16:15:…

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0:00-05:25: Greetings! Graeme and I are still recovering from our version of Civil War—the DC Rebirth #1 roundtable from just a few days back.  Fortunately, Graeme knows just what it takes to heal the wounds of battle: a story about  his friendly nieghborhood Chatty Cat!  (Chatty Cat No. 2, no less!)

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05:25-12:51:  From Chatty Cat No. 2, to comics we’ve read this week.  Jeff has not read much—although he quite liked Revenger and the Fog #2—and Graeme has read a lot, but some of it is still under embargo (for those of you that are wondering, no, Graeme did not go on to tell Jeff about the books off-air).  So instead we kinda bitch a bit about the difficulty of keeping track of what you’ve read on Marvel Unlimited and Comixology.  Discussed: what percentage of Graeme’s Comixology In Progress list is for work; Jack Katz’s First Kingdom; and spending hours in school drawing barbarian arms.
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12:51-30:03:  Speaking of squandering precious time, Jeff has been playing Marvel Future’s Fight on his iPad, but before he can get to the point of something he finds quite sad, we have to get through a brief history of RPGs, Diablo, and free to play games.  Discussed:  who the hell is Singularity; all of the above, plus the absence of The Fantastic Four and The X-Men; and Graeme having read Contest of Champions and loving it but being art-blocked on New Avengers; all those teams featuring Johnny Storm; and a moment of lovely humanity, courtesy of Gene Yang.

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Cap sketch by Cameron Stewart, modified slightly on Twitter.

30:03-48:00: We have listener questions!  And we do want to answer them, we assure you, but Jeff also kinda wants to talk about Hydra Cap, the big reveal that somehow managed to outshine—or at least consume as much internet chatter—DC’s big reveal in DC Rebirth #1.  Discussed:  Old school Hydra; The MCU’s Hydra and people’s conception of the Marvel characters; Ed Brubaker’s Captain America run; what will happen to Alan Scott in post-Rebirth; and more.
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48:00-49:40: “Graeme, are we ever going to get to listener’s questions?” asks Jeff.  Fortunately, we are!  Thomas Williams asks: “I’ve always wanted to know what Graeme thought of the last page ending of Archer and Armstrong. I thought it’s one of the best last pages of a series.”
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49:40-59:55: Ahmed Bhuiyan says:  “You guys have come a long way, I remember back in the day when the first half hour of each episode seemed to be you guys comparing juice fasts/cleanses. I kind of miss those to be honest. Anyways, on to questions! Answer as many or as few as you like of course.
1. Is the concept of a shared universe hurting or helping comics these days?
2. What work of Jack Kirby wouldn’t you recommend? (Thanks to you all and the Baxter Building segments I have been trolling eBay for the Fourth World Omnibii…only volume 2 left!)
3. Why are you two so awesome? Seriously, funny, insightful, and pretty relatable, despite how pretty hardcore do you analyze the story/creator, love it!
Keep up the great work guys, stay well, and tell Graeme to relax more and send Jeff some waffles, we haven’t had a Waffle Window update in ages it feels!”
59:55-1:13:31:  Adam Knave throws us this hypothetical: “You need to put people on the dc rebirth books. You can’t change the titles themselves, only creative teams. What are a few of your choices? (Besides giving me Super Sons, obviously…)”
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1:13:31-1:23:59:  Gary Katselas (LeonK) asks : “Gentlemen, it seems I’m one of the few people who enjoyed ‘Man of Steel’ and ‘Batman Vs Superman’ more than Marvel’s many film offerings, including the recently released ‘Civil War’ which has garnered widespread acclaim among mainstream critical circles. This irks me slightly because I am most assuredly a Marvel fanboy and I find their conservative production approach too constrictive to produce interesting results. I much prefer the operatic pretensions of ‘Batman vs Superman’ and the troubling uncertainty that was injected into the Superman mythos in ‘Man of Steel’ (as well as numerous moments of sheer filmmaking insanity). Which brings me to my question: having read very little in the way of DC comics, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what comic series or storylines (Superman, Batman or otherwise) most closely match these films in tone and thematic concern?”

1:23:59-1:29:21:  Devin King asks:  “My question: Why is Watchmen a bad movie? I know its reputation but can’t find any critical responses to it. I know the common reaction was that it tries too hard to emulate the book but…isn’t that supposed to be a good thing?”

1:29:21-1:34:35:  Check this out from Heath Edwards:  “Hey fellas, super huge congratulations on getting the 200th episode! If I may suggest a topic for discussion:
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Inhumans = generation hashtag
How do the different methods of the mutants /inhumans getting their powers inform today’s readers of their own methods of empowerment?
Mutants gain their powers genetically (internal), whereas the inhumans gain their powers from the terrigen mists (external).
The mutants have no choice in their empowerment: “I was born this way”
Though, I can’t remember if there hasn’t been a story about subconscious choice being a part of the empowerment of the inhumans: “I am shy, I shall be a window” type thing
How, if at all, do these ideas play into contemporary empowerment?”
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1:34:35-1:42:09:  Hey it’s Gar Berner!  And he asks: “I just wanted to wish you two continued success on the podcast and your other endeavors and that I’m looking forward to the next 200!
My probably late question is:
Which Legionnnaire (from the Legion of Super Heroes, not the French army) do you most identify with?
The lack of Legion support by DC Comics is sad. Granted, it’s a concept a bit past it’s prime as you both mentioned. There is some angle or 2016 twist that needs to be unlocked for the LSH to be the success that it should.”
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1:42:09-2:01:01:  Here comes Levi Tompkins, you guys!  Levi has four big questions for us:
Q1 You guys have talked a lot about some of the weirdness that guys like Englehart, Claremont, and even Shooter have brought to comics do to their own particular sexual ideals and hangups.  Do you think that modern big 2 comics has divorced itself from that sort of thing, and if so do you think its better off for it?
(As someone who has been rather warped by things read in Claremont comics and other places as a kid its one of those things I think about a lot)
Q2 What would Modern Marvel events be like under people like Englehart or Kirby.  What would a Kirby Event look like?
Q3  With the Gotham Academy Lumberjanes crossover coming, any other non big two books you think it would be interesting to have crossover with the Marvel or DC?
Q4 Who are your favorite new Big 2 characters.  I find myself really adoring some of the newer X-characters, or Gotham Academy kids, any people from the last 10 years you adore and think could last?”
2:01:01-2:01:55: Maybe not a question per se, but Bruce Baugh has a beautiful white-hot burn:
“What we need is a little Wait What app that would grab from a list of Jeff’s favorite favorite nouns, with audio of him saying them, and drop into sentences of the podcast as needed. So when Jeff says “It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to, but not fully until the DC, yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for, hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in…”, We’d get “”It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to [recontextualization], but not fully until the DC [collection], yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for [Don Heck], hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in [editorial]…”
2:01:55-2:06:29:  And here’s the matching “question” from long-time chum of the podcast Robert Grzech:
“In light of the critical failure of BvS and Graeme’s on-air lukewarm reception and off-air distaste for the latest Captain America movie, I’m truly curious as to what your opinions are as to what exactly makes for a good comic book movie?
What are your expectations? Graeme doesn’t like Marvel in general so he’s not exactly the audience for Marvel movies. This makes me wonder why Graeme even went to Captain America, especially if he knew what he was going to get and went into it with what sounds like a predisposition to hating the movie. And if Graeme didn’t like Captain America, what exactly would he have done differently?  What would have made the movie work for him? I thought the movie was far better than the comic book version of Civil War. I realize this is all subjective, but Graeme’s shock (shock, I say!) that any reasonable person would like Captain America was frankly insulting. All he had to say was he didn’t like it because he’s Graeme.
I paid $5.95 to watch Captain America at a Saturday matinee. $5.95 for a 2 hour movie!  I was highly entertained. I’ve bought floppies for almost that much, which I’ve read in 10 minutes before throwing them into the garbage can. And no, it’s not 2 hours out of my life. I don’t want those 2 hours back or I wouldn’t have gone in the first place. I look at these movies as comic books brought to life, and Marvel does a decent job of staying true to the characters. If the characterizations are to be criticized because they seem stilted or cartoonish or underdeveloped, that’s because these are comic book characters!
If they had made these movies back when we were kids, we would have gone crazy. Yeah, I know, the technology would have sucked and the early Captain America movie was an obvious example of that. These movies are comic books brought to life. That’s how I look at them. Some are harder to watch than others (Fantastic Four and Green Lantern, I’m looking at you), but generally they have met and at times, exceeded my expectations. I’m not looking for The Godfather or Annie Hall here. Just entertainment for a few dollars.
Why so serious?
Relax and enjoy them or stay home.”
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2:06:29-2:22:22:  Chad Nevett, here is your question!  (Also, I apologize for being an absolute idiot!):  “I just finished your 200th episode and have a question for episode 201: I don’t remember either of you ever saying much about John Constantine or Hellblazer (maybe you did and I forgot or didn’t hear it, because I rarely listen — not because I don’t enjoy the podcast, purely because wife, kid, job, sleep, and everything else gets in the way), but what are your thoughts on the character/comics?”
2:22:22-end: Closing Comments!  You can tell Jeff is tired when you hear him go straight to the closing without the comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to our125 supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  is a skip week! Let your ears rest and recover, and then join us for Wait, What? Ep. 202!
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0:00-3:38: Greetings! And welcome to episode 200, where our long-term special guest star, Technical Difficulties, almost dropped by for an opening visit. Those of you who’ve heard our early episodes recently might enjoy listening to Graeme and Jef try to reminisce about their early days when they can barely remember them.
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3:38-33:29: And then it’s on to a discussion about Captain America: Civil War the movie that somehow both Graeme and Jeff saw during its first week of release.  Jeff liked it, Graeme didn’t, and so we’re off to the races!  FULL SPOILERS AHOY, so please do be careful if you haven’t seen it yet. (Because otherwise you might end up like Graeme, as this conversation will make clear.)   Discussed:  Batman vs. Stupidman; reasons why you might not thoroughly spoil a movie for yourself before you see it; Robert Downey Jr.’s performance in CA: Civil War; Tom Holland as Peter Parker/Spider-Man; Chadwick Boseman as T’Challa/Black Panther; the overstuffed nature of Marvel films; Emily VanCamp as Sharon Carter; J.Law vs. J.Gar vs. J.Lo vs. J.League; Joss Whedon, J.J. Abrams, and how the works at the front of the nerd zeitgeist age over time; good movies vs. good Marvel movies; the action sequences in CA: Civil War; John Wick and the legacy of Hong Kong movies; different special effect houses; Graeme shit-talking CA: Civil War in emails or not; and then…SPECIAL GUEST APPEARANCE BY ERNIE AND GUS-GUS! YAYYYYYY! (It’s like they knew it was our 200th episode!) (And yet Graeme swears to me he didn’t tell them.)
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33:29-39:41: “Yes, yes,” you’re saying.  “I suppose I have enjoyed all two hundred or so episodes of Wait, What?  But I do wish they had more cheesy tie-in discussions to big movie events that one of them doesn’t even like…”  Well, face front, true believer, because we’ve organized the Wait, What? Civil War 200th Episode Event where each of us picked a team  of five comic book characters to fight for us!  Who will win?  #TeamGraeme,  who assembled two separate teams, or #TeamJeff, which assembled a team with *six* comic book characters?  (Maybe a more important question is, why can’t these guys follow their own rules?) Discussed: Wildfire from the Legion of Superheroes; erotic Sears bedsheets; Dave Cockrum and the secret word of the podcast, which when uttered leads to….
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39:41-53:32:  As you probably know, Darwyn Cooke passed away the day we recorded this podcast, not long after it was announced he’d been fighting cancer.  Although Jeff thought we’d talk about Cooke and his legacy at the end of the episode, and Graeme was surprised we didn’t discuss it at the beginning, here we are talking about it now.
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53:32-55:03: And so with that we’re back to our discussion of the Wait, What? Civil War Teams, this time picking up with #TeamJeff and the second team for #TeamGraeme.  And then it’s time for: CALLS FROM LISTENERS. In order to make it easier on my tippy-tappy little fingers, and also in order to provide you with a modicum of suspense, I will not transcribe the whole call but rather than provide you with a meaningful excerpt as provided by Google Voice’s auto-transcription feature, which as you can imagine is absolutely 100% accurate, for example:
55:03-1:02:57:  Here’s Zack:  “Gradulations on 202 question any crap man. You know so if there’s anything more we can do to make them to is interesting and failing that and if there’s anything they can do to make expensive and less paranoid. Thanks gradulations.”  Discussed:  X-Men fans, what makes the Inhumans interesting, and more.
1:02:57-1:05:13:  Here’s Aaron (lickthestar) from Detroit: “I remember the first time I came across your podcast kind of by chance after you getting back into comments after a long hiatus and I listen to you guys for an hour and a half rip apart on my favorite marvel comics and tell me what a horrible writer, pinnacle been disses […]Discussed: we are terrible human beings, Ernie and Gus-Gus have opinions; and more.
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1:05:13-1:30:19:  Here’s Paul McCall (parts 1 and 2):  “Hello, my name is Paul mcAll and I’m a comic book attic and superhero Chunky […] I have not yet hurt. I know you both drunk or some kind of clear view website, but I want details.”  Discussed: DC’s 80 page and 100 page giants; when one becomes a Whatnaut; how the two of us met; writing the Onomatopoeia newsletter for Comix Experience; how we ended up doing the podcast;  influences on the podcast (for Jeff, anyway);
1:30:19-1:33:11:  Here’s Steve from Los Angeles:  “you guys are just f****** fantastic, and I will also say that the first time I listen to the show. I absolutely hated it, and I think I first turned in on some episode where there was a lengthy discussion of the waffle window and various. You know walkal related topics, and I was like what the f*** is this […]”  Discussed:  our secret ingredient.
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1:33:11-1:34:32: Welcome, Peter from Atlanta:  “‘I’ve been a listener for about a year now, and I really enjoyed how much you guys just kind of break-ins it just feels like me and my friend alright conversations. I’ve had with friends and bars where it goes you start one place, and you end up of millions of miles away from where you are and so it’s on a few my hair thing about the show.[…]”  Discussed: THE TANGENTS
1:34:32-1:41:37:  And here’s Special Guest-Star Voodoo Ben!:  “I‘ve loved every minute of it to get to a classic wait what conundrum? I was wondering if you guys would consider. What if Jack Kirby’s post Marvel work on that community before as well this address.Discussed:  What waffles Jack Kirby’s DC work would be if Jack Kirby’s DC work (and some of his Pacific Comics work) were waffles.
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1:41:37-1:43:09: Leef Smith of Mission Comics and Art: “I went back in I’ve actually listening to some of the first episodes this week, and it’s amazing how consistent you guys are alright.”  (Leef has the diction that Google Voice apparently loves because this auto-transcribed excerpt is very, very close to what he actually said. IMPRESSIVE!) Discussed (all too briefly):  Mission Comics and Art is a fantastic comic store in San Francisco and you should go for a visit if you haven’t already.
1:43:09-1:44:42:  Levi Tompkins is here to say, among other things: “I love you guys is rambling but they just thought well. I think they’re informative. I think they’re making me the email love comics, but also sometimes heat them[…]” Discussed:  victory via SCOIP; Jeff being unfair to Graeme, and the snarkiest intro Jeff has ever made.
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1:44:42-1:47:57:  Matt Terl!  (Who really is one of our favorite people, and we had to badger him into calling):  “I figured I would do go up one of the old emails. I had sent you guys with a question that I want to point out you never ever answered posted to you know see if maybe you would take the time to answer it the question is this is from june 2012.”  Discussed: no, really, Matt, we love you; the JMS law; and more.
1:47:57-1:49:51:  David Morris from Bristol calling:  “David Morris calling from Bristol thanking you for 200 Apple Foods looking forward to more[…]” Discussed: David’s brilliant Wait, What parable.
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1:49:51-1:51:01: And here’s Martin Gray [inaccurate transcript unavailable] who took time out for the excellent work he does over at Too Busy For A Girl to leave us a message.  Thank you Martin!
1:51:01-1:59:41:  And, similarly, here’s another delightful-but-impossible-to-distort-via-Google-Voice’s-autotranscription call, this time from Daniel McKay asking: if we could have a fantasy dinner party with anyone from comics, who would you invite and why?  Discussed:  Ryan North, Gil Kane, Alan Moore, Olive Byrne, and Jill Lepore’s The Secret History of Wonder Woman,  why there’s a transcription of an orgy, Clark Kent, Alec McGarrity, Kid Eternity, Wallace Wells, Diabolik, the best version of Clue, and more.
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1:59:41-2:08:15: We are also lucky enough to get a message from Al Kennedy and Paul O’Brien of the brilliant House to Astonish! And they ask: “how do you see the comics landscape and your work in comics podcasting having changed since you started?”  Discussed:  Uh, exactly that, although Graeme comes up with much more well thought out points about the topic than Jeff.  (Sooooo much more thought out!)  But also: Bill Mantlo! Patreon!  and more!
2:08:15-2:12:23: And finally from Jay Edidin of Jay and Miles X-plain The X-Men: “As you look back over the first two hundred episodes, what do you want to revisit, and what are you looking forward to leaving in the dust?”   Discussed: Nashville, Jane The Virgin, and more.
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2:12:23-2:16:27: “Oh, but what about those listener questions?” you ask (which is itself a listener question, if you think about it).  Jeff was such a space cadet he didn’t think we got any but Graeme, fortunately, knows better.  However, there’s no way we’re going to be able to answer them this go-round so, episode 301, which will be the episode after next week’s Baxter Building episode, will tackle all those questions…and any more you want to send to !
2:16:27-end: Closing Comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich.  If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 125 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  It’s Baxter Building, Ep. 18! Read Fantastic Four issues #134-146 with us!
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0:00-10:45: Greetings! And a slow burn of a greeting it is, too, what with Graeme actively (actively!) asking questions about Jeff’s storage space moving plans. And then a discussion of media mail?! Are you kidding me??  Just how lucky are you, you guys? It’s almost impossible to gauge.

10:45-22:04: Comics!  We realize right around here that we can talk about comics: y’know, just dive right and start talking about comics we’ve been reading on our over the last three-plus weeks that.  So of course we spend some time talking about public reception to the upcoming Captain America: Civil War movie. Also discussed: anger and the Internet, surgery, scheduling, commercials and Marvel Comics, and more.
22:04-37:38: Speaking of which, we discuss the first issue of Black Panther by Ta-Nehisi Coates, Brian Steelfreeze, and Laura Martin: Discussed: price points; Hickman’s Avengers; Don McGregor’s Panther’s Rage; the Marvel BOGO sale at Comixology and the Marvel Half-Price Off Sale at Amazon; Black Panther as Batman; Jack Kirby, Grant Morrison, and Geoff Johns.
37:38-52:58: in fact, Graeme has read *a lot* of Geoff Johns material recently so he has some opinions on this very topic. Discussed: JSA, Hawkman, Brightest Day, Flash: Rebirth, and Green Lantern: Rebirth; Captain Britain; Geoff Johns’ Flash and TV’s Flash; and more.
52:58-1:19:17: “Are you into Flash?” Graeme asks. “Like, as a character?”  This is a potentially great topic for conversation—who are our favorite heroes, and why?—but it catches Jeff surprisingly off-guard.  Discussed:  DC heroes and Marvel heroes; every Wildcat story ever; the template behind Morrison’s JLA and how it’s being used by Waid right now in All-New, All-Different Avengers; Nick Spencer and Daniel Acuna’s Captain America; Jeff’s Captain America theory; Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill; DC’s Legends; where the name “The Phantom Stranger” came from; and more.
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1:19:17-1:34:37: A thing Jeff re-read very recently and greatly enjoyed but not in the ways he expected: Elektra Assassin by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz. Also discussed:  David Mazzuchelli and Daredevil: Born Again and Batman: Year One; Dave McKean; Barron Storey; and more.
Wheaton11:34:37-1:40:06: Other things Jeff re-read and enjoyed: two collections of Brubaker’s and Phillips’ (and Staples’ and Breitweiser’s) ’ Criminal:  Bad Night and Last of the Innocent, while also checking out the recent 10th Anniversary Special Edition Magazine.  Discussed: Archie, Encyclopedia Brown; Britt Black; Wil Wheaton; Matt Fraction; and more.
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1:40:06-1:52:39: Also on the “Jeff read and enjoyed this” list: 4 Kids Walk Into a Bank by Tyler Boss and Matthew Rosenberg; Unbeatable Squirrel Girl V2 #7 by Ryan North, Erica Henderson and Ricco Renzi; The Vision #6 by Tom King, Gabriel Hernandez Walta and Jordie Bellaire (with a possible spoiler for Civil War II); the problem with Ms. Marvel; and more.
1:52:39-2:09:30: Jeff also read via Marvel Unlimited the first issue of Amazing Spider-Man (2015) by Dan Slott and Giuseppe Camuncoli and he had, let us just say, “all the feels” about it. Discussed: Spidey’s love interests; how to have your spider-cake and eat it too; grown-ups and Richie Rich; #NotMyBlackPanther; and more.
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2:09:30-2:14:46: Because we’ve run long, Graeme can only briefly extol the virtues of The Panther by Brecht Evens (now out in English) and Hot Dog Taste Test by Lisa Hanawalt, both from Drawn & Quarterly); and Jeff manages to work in how much he enjoyed the first issue of Sun Bakery by Corey “Rey” Lewis.
2:14:46-end: Closing Comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich.  If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)! And our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 120 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  For some of the reasons discussed above, but also because of the schedule (we think?), there’s a skip week! Catch us in two for more audio gaga!
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0:00-4:56: Greetings! and again!  And…again!
4:56-1:10:47: So, with that little bit of stupidity out of the way, on to the more serious stuff and part of the reason we decided it was worth bumping the Baxter Building by a day or two in or to discuss this:  last week, Shelly Bond was fired from her position at Vertigo.  And not long after that, to point out the frustration with one of the few female editors in power in the U.S. comics industry being fired, someone pointed out that, by contrast, DC editor Eddie Berganza was still working with the company despite his history as a serial sexual harasser.
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Now, I’m not going to recap Graeme’s recap, or sum up the discussion he and I go on to have about both bits of news, but I should definitely link to Abhay’s excellent post about the Berganza situation, not least because I hadn’t read it before I talked to Graeme and I make several, if not most, of the asshole moves he specifically thinks could stupidly hinder the public discussion of the topic.
That said—with probably far less of an apology than I really should be offering—here is Graeme and I talking about the situation for an hour (with not nearly enough about the death of Prince, which upset Graeme and gutted me).
Discussed:  the firing of Shelly Bond, Eddie Berganza’s history as a serial sexual harasser; a woman who was sexually harassed and almost raped by a Senior Art Director from DC; Nathan Edmondson; Scott Allie; Brian Wood; complicity; responsibility; power and powerlessness; Alex Nieto and D”Paris Williams; Julius Schwartz; DC ICU; stories being killed; videogame journalism; reality TV; and much, much more.
1:10:47-end:  Closing Comments!  We have closing comments for you! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr!  Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 119 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
COMING SOON: Baxter Building Episode 16!  Really!  Very, very soon!
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Oh, man.  I apologize right now if the audio file you get sounds weird, you guys:  for some reason, the first ten seconds kept cutting out on me over and over and over so trying to solve that may have been too taxing for my limited skills. I was able to get it to work but now there’s a two second delay between when I finish introducing and Graeme & I start gabbing.  You’ll forgive me, right?

Anyway, enough with the preemptive apologizing, let’s get to the purely emptive apologizing—show notes!

0:00-3:51: Greetings! And chores!
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3:51-45:02:  Batman v. Superman v. Jeff v. Graeme! And yet, that is not entirely true, whatnauts, as you’ll find out when we delve into the film.  FULL SPOILERS in that we talk about all the “plot” twists and reveals in the movie.  But us being us, we also talk about the three points where Graeme laughed inappropriately, the parts that he loved, why Jeff thought about the Avengers, why Graeme thought of Wile E. Coyote, the best joke in the movie, why does Bruce Wayne lose his shit during the apocalyptic car commercial, which one of us thought of the film as “flaming car wreck of a film, but totally enjoyable,” the most suspenseful moment of the film for Jeff, Wonder Woman, the crazy second week drop in box office earnings, how much of BvS:DoJ was a Zack Snyder movie, and how much of it was a Warners/DC movie;  and more.
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45:02-48:43: In fact, we’re still talking BvS:DoJ but I thought I’d throw in a break in the ol’ time stamp since we change topic to talk (briefly) about the Suicide Squad reshoot rumors, and whether all the positive response to Wonder Woman will mean to a lot more studio meddling in the Wonder Woman movie.
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48:43-57:39: Back to BvS:DoJ.  “Would you recommend [the movie] to people?” asks Graeme.  Discussed:  John Romita, Jr., Nabokov’s Lolita, Jesse Eisenberg’s Luthor, the missing footnote from the movie, Luthor’s top-notch attention to folder logos, and more.
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57:39-1:09:26:  Graeme pivots away from BvS:DoJ to talk about the antidote to that film—the Flash/Supergirl crossover episode, but Jeff hasn’t seen it so the convo is pretty truncated and so we move on to some of Graeeme’s reservations about Captain America: Civil War. Discussed: when friends fight; when superheroes fight; when screenwriters fight; when wrestlers fight; when superhero movie trailers fight; and the last shot of BvS:DoJ  (like I said FULL SPOILERS).
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1:09:26-1:34:18:  And with that, our Batman vs. Superman talk is done.  Now it’s time to talk about I Hate The Internet by friend of the podcast Jarett Kobek.   Discussed:  how much we love the book; how we appear in the book; Kurt Vonnegut and Breakfast of Champions; Philip K. Dick; literature vs. the internet; The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy; the ghost of Jack Kirby; Jeff wound up by Jarett; books promising you one thing and giving you another (pros and cons); collapsing narratives and lessons to the reader; the “I Hate The Internet” bot on Twitter; and more.
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1:34:18-1:57:09:  “So, Graeme, should we talk about, like, comic book comic books?” asks Jeff and Graeme decides to meet him halfway by discussing the Rebirth press conference.  Discussed:  The bittersweet return of Greg Rucka; wondering about the whereabouts of Tom Taylor and Brendan Fletcher; a rumor about the previous Batgirl team with a countering rumor; Hope Larson on Batgirl; the non-announced team of The Super Sons, and some worries about the biweekly publishing schedule; DC taking pages from the Marvel playbook after the Marvel playbook has stopped working in the marketplace; Dan Jurgens on Action; Tom King on Batman; the pairing of art teams on the biweekly titles; the rumored creative team for The Super Sons; and more.
1:57:09-2:05:39: Almost a non-sequitur:  Jeff liked the second issue of Power Man & Iron Fist by David Walker and Sanford Greene much more than the first issue.  And Graeme has been reading the first two volumes of the JSA Omnibus by David Goyer, Geoff Johns, Stephen Sadowski, Leonard Kirk, Don Kramer and many more.  Discussed: The Geoff Johns influence, the Scott Snyder influence, Graeme and Matt Terl being butts; Graeme reading every appearance of Captain Britain between his first appearance and Excalibur.  Wow, right?  Look for that as a Wait, What? essay appearing near you!
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2:05:39-2:12:42: Closing Comments!  We have closing comments for you! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich.  If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 119 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
2:12:42-end:  But!  Before we leave—Graeme hunts down the description of this podcast from I Hate The Internet to share it with you all.  Because, yes, we are exactly that vain, sadly enough.
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NEXT WEEK: Uh, well, funny thing about that—because of ECCC (yay!) we’re going to have to take another skip week (booo!). But join us in two weeks for the next Baxter Building (yay!) where we discuss Fantastic Four issues #126-133 (booo! probably, though I admit I haven’t read them yet.)
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GreenThisIsFine

KC Green, who is awesome, is awesome

0:00-8:53: Greetings!  We’ll save you the early problems with Skype and just take you to where things finally straightened out, and Jeff and Graeme were able to just start talking about, y’know, the Internet and happiness and babies slipping on ice and OUTRAGE! and stuff.

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8:53-32:10: And then we get a chance to get into it: Neil Gaiman’s new issues of Miracleman have been pulled from Marvel’s solicits!  Why? Who? What? Where? And is the opening Jeff needs to get his take on the Miracleman mythos published?  We answer nearly none of those questions! But we do discuss how Jeff would do in a debate against Donald Trump, so…
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32:10-48:19: Graeme has been reading the Secret Wars crossover isssues now that they’ve hit Marvel Unlimited and…he’s pretty uninterested!  Is that just because Graeme is more of a DC man, or does Jeff, who is more of a Marvel man, also have the same problem? A lot of talk about the pros and cons of Marvel Unlimited, Jeff and the ‘90s, SPOILERS for the Secret Wars: Civil War miniseries, the emotional investment necessity for alternate universe stories, and more.
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48:19-57:27: A mean, off-handed comment from Jeff has Graeme talking about a book he’s been catching up on and enjoying:  Harley Quinn by Jimmy Palmiotti, Amanda Conner, and Chad Hardin. Graeme talks a little bit about why the book works for him, why he wishes more books could have this sense of fun, how Harley should or shouldn’t be linked to DCYou, and more.
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57:27-1:02:44: “Wait, how did we end up talking about Frank Tieri?” Graeme asks. Jeff’s reply:  because he read and enjoyed This One Summer by Jillian Tamaki and Mariko Tamaki, published by FirstSecond Books.  NOTE: due to Jeff being a dumb-ass, he refers to Mariko Tamaki as the illustrator and Jillian Tamaki as the writer, when it is actually the other way around.  The dumb-ass regrets the error.
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1:02:44-1:18:30:  The other book Jeff read and wanted to discuss is Patience by Daniel Clowes.  Jeff finished reading the book a half-hour before the recording of the podcast and he has a plethora of feelings to work out about this book, about Clowes’ work, and about the things Clowes tries and accomplishes in Patience. Also discussed: time travel, the thing that Graeme loves; Seconds by Bryan Lee O’Malley; the butterfly and the blood spatter; and more.
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1:18:30-1:30:24:  Graeme received a review copy of Mary Wept Over the Feet of Jesus:  Prostitution and Religious Obedience in the Bible by Chester Brown but didn’t get a chance to read it before this was recorded, so we spend a certain amount of time talking about Brown’s previous book on sex work, Paying For It, Brown’s previous comics work covering the New Testament, and more.
1:30:24-1:40:08: Similarly, Jeff has read I Hate The Internet by friend of the podcast Jarett Kobek, a book that mentions, among many, many other things, both this podcast and these podcasters.  So we are going to discuss it in two weeks when Graeme has read it.  Why not pick up a copy and also read it so you can be in on the discussion when we do?  If you were a fan of, say, Kurt Vonnegut, you might quite like it.
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1:40:08-1:56:02:  Graeme has read the first issue of Dept. H (or Depth) by Matt Kindt coming out from Dark Horse (with colors from Sharlene Kindt) and quite liked it. We discuss Matt Kindt, Jeff Lemire, and Ray Fawkes and Jeff’s sense of regret for not looking more deeply at the work of these comics creators who are doing what should be Jeff’s jam but totally enjoying the arguably easier work of Ben Marra’s Terror Assaulter: O.M.W.O.T. 
1:56:02-end:  Closing comments…or are they? Because Jeff has a story about playing superheroes with his niece that he thinks is worth your time. And then:  look for us on  Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 117 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  We are on a break.  Rest up your ears!
TWO WEEKS FROM NOW: Batman v. Superman v. I Hate The Internet.  Be there!
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DemonLast

0:00-19:00: Greetings!  Welcome to our new, super-speedy show notes!  As you may have picked up on by our subtle cues here and there on the podcast, Jeff’s schedule (and life) is changing up a bit.  Until he catches up with it, or it catches up with him, welcome to our express show notes, now with 95% less lists, quotes and jokes.  Take, for example, this opening patch where we talk about how this podcast was recorded during the first day of DC Rebirth announcements at the ComicsPro conference in Portland, Oregon.  It’s also the day Jason Shiga’s last issue of Demon was released digitally to patrons of Shiga’s Patreon (and we got our hard copy in the mail too).  So first, it’s Jeff talking about how much he enjoyed the final issues and Graeme talking about how he fell behind, and then it’s on to us talking about DC’s announced plan for Rebirth.  Seventeen titles published biweekly?  SEVENTEEN?  Yup!  We run down the list, and try to handicap the odds which is tough since the creative teams won’t be announced until Wondercon.

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19:00-34:00: Then around the nineteen minute mark, with a bit of an aside for a few late breaking (and kind of fake) announcements, we talk about Wonder Woman’s various creative runs since the George Perez days—good runs, bad runs, and runs that, for whatever reason, never caught on with the reading public.  Will (as rumored) Marguerite Bennett have a better luck on the title…biweekly?
34:00-54:10: The success of reboots in this marketplace can be tough to measure since the marketplace is so tough overall: Graeme has looked at some of the sales at All-New, All-Different Marvel and points out a book that is clearly dead in the water by its second issue.  But we then Jeff drags Graeme back into listing the various biweekly titles so we can continue handicap them, in part because Jeff just can’t conceive of the idea of, say, Green Arrow biweekly or a Green Lantern title coming out every week. If you like your comic book speculation to be all about “Well, I don’t know if Peter Tomasi can sell two biweekly Superman titles” and less on the “hey, I flipped that first appearance of Harley Quinn on eBay for $50 last week”?  This whole long section should be your jam.

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54:10-1:13:30:  Graeme, as I now suspect he meant to do earlier before Jeff dragged him back onto the DC Rebirth announcement train, goes on to talk about the Marvel sales numbers, and compare them to earlier renumbering of the same series to get a sense of whether or not renumbering gives more than a short-term bump to sales.  The answer? Uh, no, maybe not!  Fortunately, we do talk a lot about various Spider-Man titles along the way, including Graeme’s recommendation for Spider-Man and the X-Men by Elliot Kalan and Marco Failla, some strong Marvel Adventures Spider-Man featuring work by Paul Samnee.  As for Jeff, he’s said it before and he’ll say it again: he’s been enjoying Spidey by Robbie Thompson and Nick Bradshaw, and Spider-Man/Deadpool by Joe Kelly and Ed McGuinness.
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1:13:30-1:30:54:  In that vein, we talk about the first issue of Power Man & Iron Fist by David Walker and Sanford Greene.  Amazingly enough, we haven’t talked enough about the original incarnation of that title, especially the long, excellent run by writer Jo Duffy from back in the ’80s: it really is amazing because it’s a favorite of both Jeff and Graeme.  So how did they react to this new incarnation, one clearly written by an equally big fan?  Listen in, I tell you! (Although SPOILERS: we spoil the first issue from page the first to page the last.)  And we fit a lot of other stuff in there, don’t worry.

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1:30:54-1:49:41: Sex Criminals #14 by Matt Fraction and Chip Zdarsky! Jeff read it and wants to talk about it, so he does.  Those of us who remember our “glory” days of talking about Fraction may admire our newfound ability to talk about the writer without getting weirdly obsessive and personal about it…or maybe not?  We hope so, anyway.
1:49:41-2:08:30: Batman #49 by Scott Snyder and Yanick Paquette! Jeff also read this and wanted to talk about it, especially in light of our previous discussions about this current storyline, Superheavy.  Jeff thinks this stuff is so strong he really wants to see more DC work from the Scott Snyder who can really own his influences the way Batman #49 does, and would be excited to see Snyder on Justice League.  But Graeme?  Well, Graeme has some pretty good reasons for why his feeling is, uh, not so much.  And just as we had a big long talk about the post-Crisis creative teams of Wonder Woman, we do the same here about JLA.

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2:08:30-2:12:06:  Time for Jeff’s regular update on Radioactive Spider-Gwen, although the reason for this particular update is that even though the writing is by Jason Latour, the art on issue #5 is by Chris Visions, not Robbi Rodriguez and the storytelling is already a lot more assured and driven. (And the coloring by Ricco Renzi helps a huge amount.)
2:12:06-end: Closing comments! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr! Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 117 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.

Next week: It’s a skip week!  Catch up on your Wait, What episodes! Do some early prep for the next Baxter Building, maybe?  But whatever you do, please enjoy it!  And we hope you also enjoy our next episode when it pops up on your feed, in your ears…and in your heart.  Awwww.

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TT Debut

00:00-17:43:  Greetings and Happy New Year from Graeme “I Didn’t Lose Consciousness, I Just Blacked Out” McMillan and Jeff “No, That Is Exactly What Happens When You Lose Consciousness: You BLACK OUT” Lester, who have a very extended non-comics opening session that involves the Snowpocalypse, bicycles,  learning to ride bicycles, the delay some of us might’ve had in learning to ride bicycles, rude four year olds, growing up out in the middle of nowhere, and, yes, blacking out.
17:43-1:09:46: Okay, so yes comic books.  Don’t worry, we remember! (Or…do we?)  Following on the heels of his recent post here at the website, Graeme and I talk about DC’s Teen Titans. More specifically, DC’s comic book incarnation of the Teen Titans, and even more specifically, the revitalization of that title (which we could more honestly remove the “re-“ and call a vitalization) under Marv Wolfman and George Pérez, as well as what happened to it afterward.  Graeme has read a huge ton of the material recently—including Teen Titans Omnibus 1, 2, and 3, as well as the New 52 trades and the current Titans Hunt series by Dan Abnett, Paulo Siqueira, and Geraldo Borges—whereas Jeff has been out of the Titans loop for a very long time, but was a fan of the Wolfman/Pérez material back in the day. Discussed/referenced:  The Beatles, Chris Claremont, the Uncanny X-Men, the Dark Phoenix storyline, The Judas Contract, that “annoying blond guy,” the second big Trigon storyline and the secret theory about it that Jeff never gets to utter because there’s too much gabbing going on.

TT Nightwing

(PODCAST BONUS:  That theory?  About a story Jeff never finished reading? The theory is that Raven was sexually abused by her demonic father and Wolfman thought he could make the icky subtextual link between icky sexual abuse and demonic evil into actual text in the direct market-only Baxter-approved book but then wasn’t able to for whatever reason and then had nowhere else to go…unless that is indeed what happened, in which case it’s just as well I didn’t mention it on-air anyway.)

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Also discussed:  Wolfman’s confession about his years-long creative block and subpar work; the importance of George Pérez as the detailed yang to Wolfman’s scattered yin; the gap between Paul Smith and John Romita, Jr., and between George Pérez and José Luis Garcia-Lopez; Bob McLeod, as penciller and inker; the artistic legacy of the New Mutants; Kurt Schaffenberger; Louise Simonson taking over New Mutants; Doug Ramsey as an example of the limitation of the superhero genre; slowly typing in those stupid programs onto the VIC-20 that never worked right; the movie War Games and The Hacker’s Handbook; Chris Claremont not being down with X-Factor; post-Tumblr DC; the three distinct eras of Teen Titans, including the Geoff Johns and Scott Lobdell’s eras; the Marvel template and the hot-headed feet of clay character; the above-referenced Titans Hunt by Dan Abnett, Paulo Siqueira, and Geraldo Borges (and Stephen Segovia); “racist” Aqualad; the return of Mr. Twister; how to avoid alienating new readers right after attacting them; and more.

TT WhoIs1:09:46-1:23:59: FINALLY, we put the Titans to rest and move on to a new timecode as we segue from how Titans Hunt handles its approach to a reboot with the new nonboot from All New All Different Marvel.  Discussed: Al Ewing’s work on the current incarnation of The Ultimates, and why he’d be the perfect writer for The Fantastic Four; Marvel winning truly new  comic readers and then losing them with a reboot;  the end of the first volume of Ms. Marvel; The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl’s upcoming crossover with Howard The Duck; Chip Zdarsky on Howard The Duck vs. Chip Zdarsky on Jughead; what happens when sales targets are not met and how to measure those sales targets; and whether or not sales on Marvel’s Star Wars books are leveling or actually dropping.

1:23:59-1:37:59: And because Jeff has finally(!!) seen Star Wars: The Force Awakens, we move into moderate spoiler territory as we talk about the difficulty Marvel might have in doing Star Wars comics in The Force Awakens milieu, even though they absolutely should despite [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS] and [SPOILERS].  Also discussed:  the awkward comic book shenanigans caused by the end of Star Trek III: The Search for Spock; Stars Wars: The Road to the Force Awakens—Look Out, Here Comes The Force Awakens;  iZombie, Lucifer, and the twelve recent Vertigo launches including by Slash And Burn by Si Spencer who is NOT Si Spurrier; and more.
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1:37:59-1:46:39: And that “more” lets Jeff steer the convo over to High School Debut, his newest manga crush from Kazune Kawahara who is the writer of other current manga crush object, My Love Story!!  High School Debut is Kawahara’s earlier project where she was both writer and artist, and Jeff may like it even more that MLS!!  Discussed: a comparison of buying for the Kindle and reading on Comixology to smuggling cigarettes; the hook for High School Debut; and an eensy bit more.
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1:46:39-1:50:58: “But let’s flip it back to you Graeme,” sez Jeff.  “what have you been reading recently, apart from a shit-ton of Teen Titans?” Although Graeme insists at first he’s been reading nothing but Teen Titans, in fact he’s also been catching up with the Valiant titles, in part after reading the CBR list of the Best 100 comics of 2015. Find out the books that Graeme would pay money to keep reading and which books had potential and lost momentum.
1:50:58-2:12:30: Graeme has also been reading a lot of prose, including Elvis Costello’s Unfaithful Music & Disappearing Ink.  Come for the book review, stay for Jeff’s encounter with Mr. C and, more importantly, something somone once said about the film classic Gregory’s Girl that he unconditionally believed for thirty years. And then…
2:12:30-end: *No* closing comments! That’s right, due to some miscommunication between Jeff and the wife lady, he has to leave Toot Sweet (which, no, does not mean he has his throat cut with a straight razor by Mickey Rourke).  And so, we do not get a chance to extend on-air our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 113 of our supporters on Patreon who make our show possible.
Fortunately, Graeme does have the time before we go to check out the Gregory’s Girl story and disprove it, crushing a three decade long belief by Jeff. Right. Into. The. Fucking. Dirt.  And maybe it’s just me, but Graeme seems actually pretty delighted to do so? I mean, Jeff was basically like this:

Anyway, look for us on  Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr!  And, of course, where, as of this count, 115 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Next week:  episode 13 of Baxter Building!  Read up on issues #103-112 of the Fantastic Four and join us for your monthly dose of semi-historical comic analyses.  We’ll see you then!
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