0:00-16:42: Greetings! Although after a bit of appreciation for people’s clarification of the first appearance of Black Bolt’s full name, we downshift to a more subdued discussion about the passing of artist Rich Buckler, a fact we learned about approximately an hour before recording. Jeff was a big fan of the man in his prime, Graeme has a reawakened appreciation for Buckler during his DC era, and we take a time to talk about  our knowledge of the man’s work, an appreciation of his skill and talent, and a certain amount of wondering about what might’ve happened if Buckler had entered the field just a few years.  RIP, Mr. Buckler.
16:42-28:24: And somewhere in there we start talking about some of the lost indie publishers of the late ‘70s and early ‘80s, the popularity of dudes like Gerber and Englehart and McGregor, and the continuing brain boggler that is Chris Claremont’s unlikely triumph as the most popular and influential creator of the era.
28:24-1:20:59: And then there were technical difficulties! And then we keep talking more about Claremont! Plus: the rise and fall into obscurity of creators over the years; the amazing work of Margaret Millar and its return to print; whether or not Fantastic Four is returning during Marvel Legacy; the cancellation of Black Panther and The Crew, and a lot of speculative discussion about Marvel generally; what Marvel and DC are doing for Kirby’s hundredth birthday; and much, much more.

1:20:59-1:45:16: Here’s the part where we talk about why we’ve been too busy to sit down and just read comics!  Also, a discussion of our current TV obsession and the things we will or won’t do to get it, a certain trepidation over the return of Twin Peaks, and more.
1:45:16-1:58:00: But somehow! We manage to return to the topic of comics and the few that we’ve read recently!  (Always nice to hear in a comic book podcast, I’ve been told.)  Graeme runs us through the new X-O Man of War series by Matt Kindt and Thomas Giorello; Immortal Brothers: Tale of the Green Knight by Fred Van Lente and Cary Nord; Swordquest by Chad Bowers, Chris Sim and Scott Kowalchuk; Vampirella by Paul Cornell and Jimmy Broxton; The Sovereigns by Ray Fawkes, Kyle Higgins, Johnny Desjardins, and Jorge Fornes; and The Greatest Adventure by Bill Willingham and Cezar Rezak (with covers by Cary Nord).
1:58:00-2:22:21:  And in case you care what Jeff has been reading, he runs through his list very quickly:  amazing old issues of The Brave & The Bold by Bob Haney and Jim Aparo;  Interviews with Monster Girls Vol. 2 by Petos; ‘Namwolf #1 by Fabian Rangel Jr. and Logan Faerber (with another shout-out to Kyle Starks’ Rock Candy Mountain); Vol. 1 of Darth Vader by Kieron Gillen and Salvador Larroca; Darth Maul #1 by Cullen Bunn and Luke Ross; America #1 by Gabby Rivera and Joe Quinones; and Medisin #1 by Jeff Dyer, Mark McKeon, and David Brame.  Jeff also read a lot of Deathstroke recently, and promises to talk about that on a future episode.
2:22:21-2:25:50:  And in a future episode, Graeme really wants to talk about Tom King’s Batman.  “It’s giving me the feels, Jeff,” Graeme confesses and goes on to lay down the bones of what he’s interested (SPOILERS for the end of The Button), leaving us hardly any place to go but to…
2:25:50-end: Closing Comments! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week:  Skip week!  Read some comics, and join us back here in two weeks, won’t you?
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0:00-12:06: Greetings! Greetings and a long, perhaps too-detailed story about Jeff’s niece’s walkathon. So we discuss physical fitness for kids today, and what it was like back when we were kids.  SPOILERS: Graeme’s story is a lot like this:

12:06-25:15: And from there, we get into the comic book discussion, with Jeff talking about downloading the first trade of Power Man/Iron Fist Vol 1 by David Walker and Sanford Greene from Comixology Unlimited, in part so he can give a special shout-out to the double-barrelled Kurosawa tribute in issue #5.
Also discussed: the fact that Marvel is now on Comixology Unlimited, which is a news story from this week that nobody really seems that excited by but is kind of a thing. We also discuss Marvel Unlimited, and the pros and cons there.
25:15-55:24:  This was recorded on Free Comic Book Day, and so Graeme has a story about the differences between the print and digital copies of the FCBD books, as well as a review of his five favorite free issues this year.  (As for Jeff, well, you probably saw the picture making the rounds of Twitter from this year’s Spongebob comic, but if not, it’s at the top of this post!)  And then we go on to discuss, among other things, the Secret Empire FCBD issue and some of the confounding story choices that are made.  Graeme also covers some speculation concerning future issues of the event, as well as reception, rumors and what-have-you.  (Yes, the ever-fascinating *what-have-you*!)
55:24-1:16:01: Only tangentially related to Secret Empire (in that it involves the digital copies offered by SE #0), Jeff wants to talk about reading Mockingbird issue #6 by Chelsea Cain and Kate Niemczyk, and how that got Jeff to read the other two issues via Marvel Unlimited *and* about the unexpected retcon that messes with the West Coast Avengers story by our beloved Steve Englehart.  Come for the trepidation, stay for Jeff’s clumsy re-read of Mockingbird #8.
1:16:01-1:26:46: In other “Jeff is kind of a terrible person” news, please overlook his failed attempt to tease Graeme for seeing Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2 (not in a press screening, but at an actual damn screening!)  I mean, Graeme was kind enough to overlook it, so you can too, right?  (FWIW, Jeff still feels terrible about it.)  But enough about Jeff!  Graeme saw GOTG, Vol. 2, and so we discuss the film.  There is a casting spoiler from 1:18:43 to 1:19:28, general spoilers about characterization from 1:19:28 to 1:19:52 or so, and then there’s a spoiler for one of the post-credit sequences we talk about at 1:20:44.  So this section is pretty spoiler-heavy for a movie that just came out this weekend (which is generally unlike us, I hope?).  Maybe skip over the whole thing and come back to it after you’ve seen the film, I guess?  No plot spoilers, but we do not couch talking about the film much at all.
1:26:46-1:39:52:  “But is it better than Suicide Squad?” asked nobody ever.  And yet that is the road we sort of go down as Jeff admits he watched Suicide Squad recently (thanks to good ol’ HBO Now) and he wants to revisit what he understood to be some of Graeme’s statements about it.  We discuss how the theatrical release was made, what things (no matter how slight) worked, all the many things that didn’t, and more.
1:39:52-1:55:29: Then, as a complete change-up to the way the conversation has been going, we finally get around to talking about a bit of excellent superhero stuff in a non-comic medium:  the first season of Legion (currently on Hulu) which we both pretty much love the bejesus out of.  Full spoilers for this one, right down to how Jeff thinks the cliffhanger at the end of S2 is going.  So if you haven’t seen it yet, just go see it and then come back and listen to us talk about all the stuff we found truly fascinating about it.  But for those of you who saw it (probably long ago), please hang out and listen to the blather.
1:55:29-2:08:23: Wow, has it been almost two hours already?  It has!  But we have barely talked about actual, you know, comic books, so we get a chance to chime in about a thing each we’ve read and loved, with Graeme being in the tank for the first two hardcover volumes of Lazarus by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark, and Jeff grooving on the first two omnibi of Battle Angel Alita: Last Order by Yukito Kishiro.
2:08:23-2:27:24: But we are just getting our second wind so Graeme jumps off of that to talk about the four collections of Strontium Dog by John Wagner, Alan Grant, and the amazing Carlos Ezquerra he has read recently and very much loves.  And Jeff follows up that up with a spoiler-free review of Walking Dead #167 since it’s a pretty major issue and also because Jeff can’t figure out why he is still reading the damn book considering how much he dunks on it.
2:27:24-end: And so but finally:  Closing Comments! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast. PLUS: a beautiful little plug from Graeme which he quite appropriately calls, “a payoff for anyone who stayed with us two and a half hours.”  Oh, and you can also check out Jeff role-playing the mysterious and glamorous Cha-Cha X on the FCBD Exiled podcast episode.
Next week:  Baxter Building Ep. 29!  Covering Fantastic Four Annuals #14-18 and What If? #36! Read them, then join us here, won’t you?
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 0:00-7:32: Greetings from a very relaxed Graeme McMillan and a perhaps somewhat less relaxed Jeff Lester.  But, relaxed though they may be, they are still reading some of the books they discussed last week:  Graeme is still making his way through Hostage by Guy Delisle, and Jeff is still making his way through (deep breath) Abandoned Cars by Tim Lane, Judge Dredd: The Cursed Earth Saga Uncensored by Pat Mills, Mike McMahon and just about everybody, and although he finished vol. 1 of West Coast Avengers by Englehart, Milgrom, and Sinnott, he’s just barely dug into volume 2 (which actually starts seven issues after volume 1.  Boo, Marvel!)


7:32-21:46: The discussion about 2000 A.D. pacing in the 70s leads fittingly into Rob Williams’ current writing on Suicide Squad with art first by Jim Lee and currently by John Romita, Jr. (and a plethora of artists for each issue’s back-up strips, such as Eddy Barrows and Eber Ferreria in issue #14).  Also discussed:  the combat banter of Steve Englehart; the use of shtick and the back-up story structure in Suicide Squad; and more.

21:46-29:52:  Jeff was a bit bummed to hear one of his favorite comics, DC’s The Flintstones, is ending after issue #12.  And asking about this is a very fine way to get Graeme to talk about the upcoming DC/Hanna Barbera crossover annuals for which Graeme has read the review copies.  Discussed:  Flintstones/Booster Gold by Mark Russell and Rick Leonardi; the Snagglepuss back-up; the Batman/Top Cat crossover; and more.
29:52-35:28:  This episode was recorded on the day the new Justice League trailer was released (see above), so it made sense to transition from talking about the latest DC comics to DC’s latest attempt to build a franchise.  What’d we think?

35:28-59:47: And from the DC movie trailer, to the latest Marvel (non-Marvel Studios) movie, Logan.  Please note this is a full spoilers discussion—pretty much every bit of it gets spoiled so stay away from this section if you still haven’t seen it.
59:47-1:02:46: From there we pivot to discusss…the other Wait, What? podcast! (Wait, what?) We are many, and we contain multitudes, apparently?
1:02:46-1:12:12: And hey, here we are discussing this Marvel retailer conference thing that’s happening kinda/sorta of the downlow.  Jeff is wondering what Graeme has heard about, and if he thinks the Marvel Leopard can change its spots.
1:12:12-1:23:11:  What should’ve been a discussion on what Graeme’s reading becomes a longer discussion about Tom King’s Batman—Graeme is enjoying it tremendously, but Jeff is so far behind, will he ever catch up? And if so, how?


1:23:11-1:35:50: Graeme is also very impressed with what Joshua Williamson (with a raft of artists such as Carmine Di Giandomenico, Jesus Merino, and others) is doing to reinvent Barry Allen for The Flash, by taking the TV Barry Allen and doing an even better job with it. And that gets us into a discussion of characters that we care enough about that we’ll check out no matter who is on the title.
1:35:50-1:57:08: Graeme had linked to an article on Medium by Meg Downey about fanfic and although Jeff still hasn’t read the piece (he fav’d it for later), we discuss a bit about fanfic’s ability to give audiences what they want on certain properties better than the corporate owners of the properties. And then there’s some more talk from Jeff about Englehart and West Coast Avengers because, hey, who can stop him?


1:57:08-2:02:05: Also, thanks to another A+ manga recommendation from a Whatnaut, Jeff just finished the first volume of Interviews with Monster Girls by Petos, and wants to talk about it.

2:02:05-2:09:43: And Graeme wants to talk a bit about Terms and Conditions by R. Sikoryak which he is, uh, coolish about. He also wants to discuss Boundless by Jillian Tomaki, which he loves. And then…
2:09:43-: Closing Comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher!Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast. Oh, but before we go, Jeff has a theory about the Cursed Earth Saga, a certain creation of Pat Mills, and a certain creation of Jack Kirby.

Next week:  A skip week!  And then in two weeks, a Baxter Building!
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http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat220.mp3 First things first, make sure you don’t miss out Matt talking about that Logan movie right below this very entry, y’hear? Good stuff, right?  And now, some show notes: 0:00-3:47: Greetings! This week’s opening…

Wolverbird

0:00-3:46: We get right into it, no kidding!  There’s maybe twenty seconds of baffled recognition from your hosts, and then it’s right into answering questions.  BUT!  Before we get into the final round of questions from our Patreon supporters, Jeff has a few questions for Graeme.  First up:  how does Graeme feel about the CW shows (including shows like Flash and Arrow) leaving Hulu?  Discussed:  Seth Meyers monologues; late night TV; and just an eensy bit more before moving into a more substantive topic…

Flash Rebirth One
3:46-17:49:  Earlier in the week, Jude Terror over at The Outhousers wrote a condemnatory piece on the Direct Market that stirred up a lot of reactions and support online.  What did Graeme think about it?  What did Jeff think about it?  And what *is* wrong with the Direct Market? Discussed: Nighthawk; Omega Men; the direct market and cableization of TV; and more.  So much more, in fact, that Graeme jumps the queue on our listeners’ questions to pivot to one related to the topic at hand, and so…
17:49-51:56:  Comic Cruncher asks:  floppies vs GNs/TBPs vs digital – how do you see the market developing and what are the implications for the future?  Discussed: the sales numbers for DC Rebirth; the very strange side-effects of double-shipping; some finger-pointing from Jeff about the plateau/depression of digital comics; Graeme believes a Comixology comic was yanked from his collection (has anyone else had this happen?); Marvel’s reaction to freak hits; Angry Birds vs. DC Super Hero Girls; and more.
Dr Fate TPB1
51:56-55:29: Maxy Bee asks:  how startled are you that Levitz’s Doctor Fate is the last remaining DCYou title, and still kicking at that?  Discussed: the DCYou book that outlived Doctor Fate; Jeff decided to turn cancelled DCYou books into codenames; and more.
SuicideSquadmov
55:29-1:07:23:  Jeffrey Brown brings down the interrogation:  what are your thoughts about the Recent Suicide Squad movie compared to Ostrander’s run on the comics post crisis? And The Films Depiction of Harley Quinn, The Joker, Captain Boomerang & the movie’s plot + Enchantress? and lastly what are your thoughts DC Young Animal titles : Doom Patrol, Shade, Cave Carson? Discussed:  all of the above, plus a bit more.
ChaykinSketchbook1:07:23-1:22:23:  Two Qs from Paul R Jaissle:  (1) I recently reread Howard Chaykin’s American Flagg! and was struck by how innovate and influential it really was (there’s definitely a lot more Chaykin in Tom Scioli’s Transformers vs GI Joe than I noticed at first). Why don’t you think it’s more regularly recognized or cited along with DKR and Watchmen as a seminal ’80s comic? (2) Given the success of DCU properties on TV (including Vertigo stuff like iZombie and Preacher) as well as the current popularity of “weird” shows like Stranger Things, how would you two cast and pitch a Doom Patrol TV series? Discussed:  the challenges to establishing Chaykin’s legacy; our dream DC TV shows; Avatar; and more.
Tecvp
1:22:23-1:37:35:  And the ever-welcome Brendan O’Hare drops by to ask two questions: (1) There’s a lot to hate about Superhero comics. What do you enjoy about the new ones coming out?; and (2) For Graeme: What was your favorite interview? Discussed: DC Rebirth; Flash; Deathstroke; Unbeatable Squirrel Girl; Mother Panic; D.C. Fontana; Geoff Johns; Maggie Q; and more.
JaimeTheGreat1:37:35-1:47:55:   Long-term pal o’ the podcast Miguel Corti has quite the question for us:  Why do comics creators, fans, critics, and journalists (on the internet at least) like Archie comics so much? I’m not talking about “Afterlife with Archie” or the new series by Mark Waid, but the traditional Archie comics featuring high school hijinks that have been the staple of the comics for decades. Archie comics always struck me as a four-color version of “Leave It to Beaver” or “Father Knows Best.” They were also the only comics that church people and teachers seemed to approve of, which made me all the more suspect of them. Since my life felt like growing up in an ’80s version of “Leave It to Beaver,” Archie comics were the last comics I ever wanted to read, and, subsequently, the only comics I never saved. (I never bought them; always given them.) I never enjoyed their cookie-cutter stories, or their never-changing art style. I’d like to think this 21st-century internet love for Archie comics is some ironic hipster thing, but it feels more sincere than that (or I’m bad at perceiving ironic interest). I don’t want to denigrate anyone’s interests, but what am I missing? Are those old-school (or pre-reboot, if you will) Archie comics good by whatever definition you have for the word? After the years of accolades I’ve heard for “Afterlife with Archie” I’m sorely tempted to check it out, especially since I like zombies, but then I remember how much I dislike Archie comics and that stays my hand. When I was a kid, I wasn’t a Jack Kirby fan, but now I can really appreciate him and I rank him as one of my all-time favorite comics artists. Unfortunately, I can’t re-assess Archies comics favorably. Maybe I’m the only one, or maybe no one wants to say anything against Archie comics in public.  Discussed:  Riverdale; David Lynch; Dan DeCarlo; Bob Bolling; Jaime Hernandez; Love & Rockets; and more.
6fingerHellcat
1:47:55-:  Good ol’ Ed Corcoran asks: The subscription based all-you-can-consume model seems to be where most other media types and media companies are going (Spotify, Netflix, etc.). Comixology (or at least their Amazon bosses) seemed convinced enough that it’s the future for comics so they created Comixology Unlimited. Marvel Unlimited seems to be doing well for Marvel, but what if they went all-in on subscription and put all comics on there the day they were released? They would probably still sell floppies and trades and might sell single digital issues, too. But what do you think would be the effect on what comics they publish, what comics they emphasize, etc. if Marvel Unlimited became the primary method by which Marvel distributed its comics?  Discussed:  the Marvel BOGO sales; the direction Marvel Unlimited is taking now; and more.
HannahMan
1:54:19-2:07:54:  Query from Cass, or to put it another way:  QUESTION. Recently, I’ve been thinking a lot, as I often do, about Spider-Man. I tried reading some of the later Dan Slott stuff, post renumbering, but I can’t get on board because I can’t recognize that character as Spider-Man. But then, I started thinking, who is the character of Spider-Man really? When Cap 3: Civil War came out, everyone said “That’s it; they finally got Spider-Man right.” But Civil War’s Spider-Man was in awe of the other heroes, whereas Stan and Steve’s Spider-Man was mistrustful and even hostile toward other super-types (the first issue of his series sees Spidey calling the FF “pikers”). The Tom Holland Spider-Man reminds me more of Bendis’s goofy, generally good-natured Ultimate Peter Parker. So I guess my questions are:  (1) When people talk about “classic” teenage Spider-Man, do you think most really have Ultimate Spider-Man in mind?  (2) What would you say are the essential characteristics of Spider-Man (or any comic hero) – what needs to be there in order for it to be Spider-Man? Is it just powers? Does the character have to have significant guilt? Anything else? Discussed: the various Spider-Man actors; Spider-Man and Civil War; Spider-Man and college; cosmic Spider-Man; understatedness; Dan Slott, Hannah Blumenreich, and Matt Fraction; etc.
BenGerber
2:07:54-2:16:45: Stephen Lacey of the fabulous Fantasticast asks:  This is a question I posed to my listeners a couple of years ago, and I’m interested in your take on it. When it comes to the FF, pretty much everyone can agree that Lee/Kirby, Byrne, Simonsson, Waid/Wieringo and Hickman are the consistent peaks in the title’s history. But what are your underrated runs/stories, the gems that get lost in the gaps between these runs?  Discussed:  Steve Englehart’s run on the Fantastic Four; the Waid and ‘Ringo run; the Tom DeFalco and Ryan run; the Chris Claremont and Salvador LaRocca run; the run of Dwayne McDuffie and many artists including Paul Pelletier; Steve Gerber; and more.
ProxyEmpress
2:16:45-end: Closing comments! Next week will be a Q&A session so please feel free to tweet or email us your questions. Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.
Next week:  Skip week! And then the week after that: Wait, What? Ep. 209!  And that ep may be an all-review podcast? Catch up with us catching up two weeks from now!
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mindstorm

Early trick? Infrequent Treat?  Either way, Wait, What? Ep. 187 is at your doorstep, dressed up this year as “Sexy All Things Considered”!  This episode is two and a half hours of Graeme and Jeff sonically toilet-papering comics’ house, and you’re invited to hide in the bushes and snicker with us!

(For those of you reading this who don’t have Halloween in your location, I hope that paragraph was more charmingly surreal than vexingly impenetrable.)

Anyway, let’s get on with those show notes, shall we?  This year, they’re dressed up as  “Sexy Medical Consultation Notes”!

Satan and his hat

00:00-13:47:  Greetings from Jeff “I Am The Devil!” Lester and Graeme “Yes, He Is The Devil” McMillan, who are off and running almost immediately thanks to some pressing comic book questions, like: was the Son of Satan actually, y’know, the son of Satan?  Discussed: J.M. DeMatteis, The Defenders, Buddha and Anti-Buddha, The Twentieth Century Satans, the David Bowie with the least amount of Bowie Flavor, the world’s meekest defense of Elvis Costello, Marvel’s recent BOGO sale, Iron Fist, Power Man, and Power Man & Iron Fist, and more.  “Patient’s autonomous reflexes are responsive…especially the sexy reflexes!”
BatrocLePew
13:47-34:59: But still tho: Iron Fist.  Jeff has been re-reading from Iron Fist’s debut in Marvel Premiere #15 and so as you can imagine we discuss: Iron Fist, the Marvel premiere of Iron Fist (in Marvel Premiere), the career of Pat Broderick, the episode when Jeff suffers a stroke on-air, the penciling debut of Larry Hama and some of the visuals that get carried over to G.I. Joe, Tony Isabella as Gerhard Schnobble, Batroc The Leaper, the origin of Ghost Rider, Seeker 3000, Crystar’s comrade in arms Beau Bridges, Mag-NEET-oh vs. Mag-NET-Oh, the origin of The Champions, Jimmy Woo founding member of the Defenders, and etc. “Patient’s seems dazed and only partially responsive to questioning…unless the questions are sexy and provocative!”
bionicemergency
34:59-1:02:43: But of course a big deal about early Iron Fist stories is it’s where a certain Chris Claremont gets his first ongoing series (and with John Byrne, his first regular collaborator) and just like with Hama, it’s pretty damn interesting to see how much of Claremont’s interests, obsessions, and tropes are here in nascent form and how much of them are just…there, right from the get-go.  Discussed:  softball, creator cameos, mind control, the success of Spider-Man eyes, Bill Everett and Amazing Man, Batroc The Leaper as Pepé Le Pew, Chris Claremont’s scripts, what made the X-Men sell and sell and sell, Claremont and his desire to create tiny little stories about people, how everyone in the cast powers up and the bionic arm reveal in Iron Fist #3, Neil Conan NPR Reporter and Moira McTaggert, Peter Corbeau, more about Jo Duffy on Power Man and Iron Fist, Kerry Gammill, Trevor Von Eeden, Bob MacLeod on New Mutants vs. Bill Sienkiewicz on New Mutants, and much more in that vein.  “Veins and pulse rate are shallow…except for the sexier veins. MROWR!”
 justleague1:02:43-1:17:16: “I want to spin us around entirely differently,” Graeme announces, “and say did you got to the store this week?” Jeff hasn’t, and technically neither has Graeme but thanks to the miracle of digital downloads and comp copies, he’s here to talk about one of his favorite books of the week, Justice League #45 by Geoff Johns, Francis Manipul and Brian Buccellato.  “You have this absolutely ridiculous plot and this astounding art, and I just finished it being like ‘why can’t Justice League *always* like this?  This is amazing!’” SPOILERS for this arc, The Darkseid War, and also SPOILERS for Brian Hitch’s opening arc on Justice League which Graeme is also enjoying.  Also discussed: Geoff Johns tropes, The Amazo Virus, old rumors from the time of Final Crisis, Jeff Lemire and Justice League Dark, Jeff Parker and Justice League United, “Even Cowgirls Get The Plants,” and more.  “Conjunctivae pink. Sclerae anicteric. Oropharynx clear…and hotter than a barbecue pit in July!”
badLonelyONe
1:17:16-1:22:14: “You know what I’ve been enjoying more than anything?” Graeme asks, but thank goodness it’s a rhetorical question because Jeff doesn’t know. “Bad Machinery.”  Discussed: yup, you guessed it: Bad Machinery by John Allison, a comic that Graeme says is “perfectly tuned to my sense of humor and my sense of the ridiculous,” the template for Bad Machinery cases, and SPOILERS for the upcoming volume from Oni, The Case of the Lonely One (and what Jeff does not say but should have is that Graeme would probably like him some Daniel Pinkwater). ” No cyanosis, clubbing or edema…except for *erotic* edema!”
 twisted image
1:22:14-1:28:03:  As becomes clear from the conversation that follows, Graeme has not read Jeff’s review of The Colonel of Two Worlds,( and Jeff is okay with that!) but he has read the comic itself, so the duo are able to discuss that very fun and strange freebie comic. Discussed: the importance of unjustified ridiculousness,  the new sincerity and the new irony.” This area was mildly indurated. There was absolutely no erythema or fluctuance and it was not tender at all. No drainage…except for the *love* drainage!”
WatcherMurder
1:28:03-1:49:12: Although he did not get to the store, Jeff did read a lot of comics and he wanted to talk about Captain Marvel #35-46, more or less by Steve Englehart and Al Milgrom.  This period falls right after the stunning run by Jim Starlin and, being buds and partying pals of Starlin, Englehart and Milgrom have big shoes to fill but also a semi-sympatico sensibility (and with that I’ll just collect my Alliteration Award at the window and be on my way, thank you very much)…or do they?  Discussed:  The Lunatic Legion, dropping acid in the Negative Zone, The Trial of the Watcher, the Skrull version of the MacArthur Genius Grant, the secret origin of Captain Marvel, space mules, how the storyline should’ve ended, Field of Dreams, and more. ALSO ALSO: If you want to read a little bit more about how less than spotless this run is, Jeff uses the letters pages as an example here.  “1+ posterior tibialis bilaterally. Feet are warm and capillary refill a bit slow but still less than 2 seconds. Decreased hair…which suggests sexy waxing! (Or hair loss.)”
 1:49:12-2:00:51: Really, we should be just about done, right?  Well, no, not quite:  Jeff, knowing how much Graeme has had to write about Star Wars recently, asks Graeme about…Star Wars!  And yet, Graeme doesn’t quite take the bait and pivots instead to discuss…Back To The Future Day! Also discussed: the impeccable craft of the first Back To The Future movie; Jeff’s suspicions about Back To The Future and Forrest Gump, Graeme’s criticism of how Back To The Future 2 steals the thunder of Back To The Future 3; Graeme’s criticism of Jeff’s theory, especially in light of the villain of Back To The Future 2 being deliberately modeled on Donald Trump, FULL SPOILERS for Back To The Future 2, shooting sequels back to back and whether that can work with movies that aren’t books, and more.  “Heart is Regular rate and rhythm without murmur, rub or gallop except for intermittent pangs…OF SEXY LOVE.”
 2:00:51-2:27:48: “I like how we were actually ‘let’s talk about Star Wars’ and we totally didn’t,” sez Graeme, and so we finally do.  Discussed: The release schedule for Star Wars movies, Greg Rucka’s Journey To Star Wars—The Force Awakens miniseries (and Graeme’s review), whether the new movie would be more satisfying the less you know about it, J.J. Abrams *KEEPER OF MYSTERIES*, Star Trek Into Darkness and Graeme’s rewatch and Jeff’s refusal to believe anything Graeme says now, rewatching Man of Steel vs. rewatching Green Lantern, rewatching Avengers vs. rewatching Avengers Age of Ultron, the good moment from The Phantom Menace, why Jeff likes John Cassaday on Star Wars and why Graeme likes Stuart Immonen on Star Wars, and more.  “Possible abnormal chest xray. Will repeat today….over a romantic candlelight dinner in the nude!”
 2:27:48-close: Closing comments!   Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast..as well as our special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 112 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr!
NEXT WEEK: Another skip week since there were five Thursdays this month and the very last Thursday is right before Jeff’s birthday so…yes, no podcast next week and blame Jeff for that.
HOWEVER, did you read all of the roundtable between Graeme, Matt, and I about the first issues of Paper Girls, Survivors’ Club, Batman & Robin Eternal, and Doctor Strange?  It’s like a podcast for the eyes! It’s worth a read! We had a lot of fun doing it and will probably want to do more!

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ALSO, on Friday, Graeme and Jeff are special guest-stars on the only movie podcast in the universe, Travis Bickle on the Riviera!  We are on part two of the massive Spookstravaganza where Sean Witzke, Travis Stone, and an unstoppable super-team of cinematic smartypants look at the film of Ridley Scott versus the films of Tony Scott!  Go check out Part 1 so you can be prepared for the sonic chair match that is Graeme vs. Jeff vs. Sean vs. Tony Scott’s Domino!!!

ALSO ALSO, Secret Convergence on Infinite Podcasts starts this week so keep an eye out on the Secret Convergence tumblr so you can catch the first crossover at Fan Bros featuring our very own Graeme McMillan!

It looks like the auto-embedding of the player is back so look to our first comment if you need a link for cutting and pasting needs.  And as always, thank you for listening!

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It’s almost Halloween and I am currently very much enjoying the fruits of my labors…although you have to understand I’m using the term “labors” in the 21st Century First World definition, which is to say “purchases.”…

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Super-Villains Unite, indeed…

Whew, what a quickly spinning world we live on.  As I write this, it was exactly a week ago that Edi and I touched down in Portland, Oregon for a whirlwind visit that, once again, had me missing Rose City Comic-Con by thisssss much. And now here I am typing up the notes for the second in-the-flesh Wait, What? podcast.  185 episodes, and only two of which were recorded with the participants in the same room?  Verily, this is the Mighty Wait, What? Age of Hikikomori, True Believer! (Sorry, I’ve been reading too many Roy Thomas introductions recently.)

Without further ado…let’s do, shall we?

00:00-08:41: Greetings from Graeme “On The Street Where You Live” McMillan and Jeff “The Call Is Coming From Inside the House” Lester who dare you to figure out the strange secret of this episode’s recording! [Hint: we recorded it live in the same space, which is why it sounds so different.] [Spoiler: that was really more of a spoiler than a hint.] [Addendum: And that was really more of a hint than a spoiler.] [Postscript: That was actually an addendum, though.]  Once again, we are recording live but this time there is no professional microphone to help us, just two men hunched around a single laptop, so we apologize for the slightly less great sound. But for now, settle in and relax as we try out introductions, Graeme tells a story from the recent Rose City Comic-Con, we try to determine how many people hate Graeme, and more.

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08:41-25:43: For example, here’s a story about the two of us shopping at Cloud Nine Comics in Portland, Oregon, where one of us was the very model of restraint, and the other one of us was Jeff.  Mentioned: Steve “The Stinker” Englehart; whether or not Englehart is still in Oakland, California; whether to eat the brain or the liver; sitting adjacent to Chris Claremont; Englehart’s Coyote and the last cover thereto; meeting pros at cons (wait…is that deliberate?), Graeme’s amazing and entirely accidental pantomime; the ideal price for back issues; Jeff’s visit to Cosmic Monkey Comics; comic t-shirts we have worn and are wearing including these amazing beauties; and more.
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25:43-48:02: Talking about Cosmic Monkey conjures memories for both Graeme and Jeff of Comic Relief in Berkeley, which leads us down the primrose path of memory about how intimidating it was for us to shop in Comic Relief in Berkeley and Comix Experience in San Francisco; being slagged off by comic store clerks; being slagged off by comic store customers; and then back to talking about all the comic book stores in Portland and San Francisco, and what it’s like to live in a city with only one comic book store; which one of us had a “quitting comics” phase and which one didn’t; how living close to a comic book store can help you transcend superhero comics; and more.
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Wait, Watch?

48:02-1:10:51: “Hey, why don’t you talk about your Steven Englehart comics?” Graeme asks, so of course we talk about the announcement of Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Black Panther for Marvel.  We also talk about the less-covered news of Frank Tieri writing The Black Knight (and Catwoman!); who’s more important to DC, what’s-her-name or what’s-his-name; the news from DC, including the cancellation of Doomed, the un-cancellation of Omega Men, and whether or not the Internet has as much faith in DC as DC has in the Internet.  Also discussed:  the first issue of Omega Men and whether or not it needed to be more clear; the first issue of Watchmen; the mastery of Dave Gibbons; and more.

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1:10:51-1:22:29: Comics we’ve read recently!  Sure, we can talk about those!  But first let’s talk about reading said comics on the Kindle, because Jeff bought Graeme a copy of the Skull the Slayer collection for the Kindle and Graeme had….problems.  Is the Kindle really a digital comic book platform at all?  And what did Graeme think of Skull The Slayer? Also discussed is the Kindle version of Super-Villains Unite, Marvel’s collection of the old issues of Super-Villain Team-Up.
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It sounds like a weird braggy innuendo, doesn’t it?

1:22:29-1:41:34: In fact, here’s Jeff discussing those very same issues of Super-Villain Team-Up! Learn what you’re (probably not) missing from Victor Loves Namor, the romance comic about two characters who can’t stand each other, as written and drawn by creators who can’t stand them, either.  Also discussed:  Jim Shooter as writer and artist; Steve Englehart and the guest-star to end all guest-stars; the secret connection between Dr. Doom and Batman; Reed Richards eating his own hair; the crossover that points to a coup; the coup that leads to a new President of Ecuador; and more.
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1:41:34-1:52:45: Graeme has read Klang!: A Writer’s Commentary by Priest about the making of Q2: The Return of Quantum and Woody from Valiant. Discussed: Bill Cosby and Mark Waid; transgender in the scripts but cis gendered in the art; dropped plotlines and characters; gossip and process; unreliable narrators; Power Man and Iron Fist, and more.
1:52:45-end: Graeme also quickly mentions the 2000 A.D. jumping-on issue (Prog 1950) that he read and reviewed here on the site, and then is kind enough to lead us into… Closing comments!  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff!  MattTumblr!  And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible!
Since WordPress isn’t automatically converting all links into the audioplayer, we’re going to leave the first comment to you and allow anyone who needs to to cut and paste from directly below:
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat185.mp3
We will be back next week!
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Hey!  Remember that Hawkeye series where we saw what Clint Barton was up to when he wasn’t an Avenger? You know, the series that was more of a crime series with laughs but also a melancholic…

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First, big thanks to Ed Corcoran for providing the perfect title for this episode!

Second, here we are!  This episode is a little early due to: the holiday weekend, some weird scheduling, and the desire to get a jump on the coming week which promises to be a bit of a sledge hammer.  So let us begin, shall we?

00:00-12:51: Greetings from Graeme “Cheers” McMillan and Jeff “Dora the Explorer” Lester, who are here once again for you!  Not only do we mention those two TV shows in the first two minutes, we also talk about Spider-Gwen #1, as read recently on Marvel Unlimited (under threat of physical violence)!  Although we both enjoyed the first issue, we talk about Jeff’s impressions of the book based on later issues, whether the book’s appeal rests solely with the creative team or not, whether or not the term “What-If’ing” is a thing or not, and more.  And this is also a fine time for Jeff to gripe about the Spider-Verse hardcover he got for super-cheap during an Amazon pricing SNAFU.  Did Marvel take passive-aggressive revenge on the advance order pilferers? Or is it just that a lot of the stories at least semi-terrible? Discuss!
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12:51-45:06: Then, our whistles whetted, it’s time for us to Q our little A’s off, with part two of our Q&A ‘cast, answering questions submitted to us by our mighty squad of patrons!  First up is Chris Carfora, who asks:  “1. Discussion Point: Have we reached the end of the age of Superhero comics? Seems like superhero movies are going through a bit of a golden age but i can’t say the same for the comics. With the reboots coming every two years now it just feels like the creators are constantly going over old territory and rehashing old ideas. Is there just not anything left to say about Superheroes? With the rise of independent comics and the availability of self-published comics through comixology and the like, do you foresee a shift away from superhero comics? 2. What would be your dream creative collaboration on your dream comic? Just to clarify, it can be past creators or current, so if you want Grant Morrison and Jack Kirby on Challengers of the Unknown go for it. 3. What cancelled or lapsed title would you most like to see resurrected? 4. In what way has the rise of marvel unlimited, comixology and other digital platforms changed the industry? Is this change a good thing?”
(Whew!) Discussed: the Direct Market; Jim Lee’s 1:5000 variant for Dark Knight III; Marvel’s troll response with a Deadpool variant cover; creator participation; Starbrand and Nightmask; the illusion of change versus the illusion of the illusion of change; Irredeemable, Incorrigible, Incorruptible, Incontinent, and Insufferable; Graeme not understanding Jeff at all;  crazy lists of dream teams for his dream comics including the Steve Gerber comic in heaven; Jason Aaron and Jason Latour on the amazing Marvel character, Razorback; Al Ewing and Henry Flint on Fantastic Four; the sequel to last year’s Judge Dredd epic, Titan, again by Rob Williams and Henry Flint; Aimee Bender and Pascal Ferry on Machine Man; Graeme summarizes the short but lively run of DC’s The Chosen; the crazy price discrepancies between some digital trades on both Marvel and Comixology (such as the Skull The Slayer and Weirdworld trades which are $10 cheaper on the Kindle); and more.
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45:06-58:27:  Carlos Aguilar asks: “1. Let’s say Image was formed in the 80s instead of the 90s, what 7 artists would you like to have seen leave Marvel (and if you want, DC) to form Image about ten years earlier? 2. Tons of Star Wars news coming out, so, Let’s say you got to pick creative teams for 4 different Star Wars books. What would the four titles be, and who would you have working on them? 3. Who would you like to see run the new incarnation of Heavy Metal instead of Grant Morrison?” Discussed:  Miller, Byrne, Perez, Golden, Simonson, Chaykin, and Art Adams (or Dave Cockrum?; the WaP! newsletter and Creator Bill of Rights crowd; being burnt out on Star Wars on the eve of Force Friday; Marvel’s Darth Vader series by Kieron Gillen and Salvador Larroca; Fabio Moon and Gabriel Ba on Boba Fett; Jason Shiga on C-3PO and R2-D2; Richard Corben on Chewbacca; the return of Walt Simonson to Star Wars; Brandon Graham editing Heavy Metal; Douglas Wolk editing Heavy Metal; Warren Ellis editing Heavy Metal; and more.
 Demon1558:27-1:04:09:  Max Brown asks: “It’s been a little while since Jeff has posted or talked about Jason Shiga’s Demon- and since it was Jeff that got me and a bunch of others reading it, it would be great to hear his thoughts on how the book has gotten 10000000x more insane and awesome since then, and on the recent announcement that First Second will be publishing it in collections. Thanks!” Discussed:  Jason Shiga’s Demon.  [Please note: Jeff actually screws up his issue numbers by one.  The amazing chase sequence is in issue #15 and the existential malaise is in issue #14.]
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1:04:09-1:36:16: Kevin Moreau asks, “1. What other podcasts, comics-related or otherwise, do either/both of you listen to/recommend? (Aside from Rachel and Miles and Into It, although please feel free to plug those, as well.) 2. What are your go-to sites/publications for comics news, insight, etc., other than your own website and Graeme’s various employers? 3. What are Marvel’s biggest problems today, and what can be done to correct them 3a. Are Secret Wars/All-New-All-Different and the continuing push to make Inhumans happen signs of creative bankruptcy? 4. I know I’ve read (Wait What mascot/patron saint) Steve Englehart comics over the years, but what would you point to as his most important/must-read work, or where should someone start in order to gain a greater appreciation? 5. Would you ever consider a Wait What Facebook group as a place for fans of the show to gather together and talk comics and related interest?Discussed:  House to Astonish; Silence!; Comic Books Are Burning in Hell; Travis Bickle on the Riviera; the Nerdist Writer’s Room; the Guardian’s political podcast; 538’s What’s The Point; a Slate podcast called Working; Serial; Bleeding Cool and its recent trend for crazily biased news stories; The Outhousers; the terrific comics analysis columns by Paul O’Brien and Marc-Olivier Frisch; the surprising read that is comicbook.com; the surprisingly apt metaphor to describe DC’s new relationship to the Direct Market; the Steve Englehart stories you should start with; and more.
 1:36:16-1:41:18:  Paul Lai asks, “Seems we’ve thrown up our hands after Golden, Silver, Bronze, and the unfortunately named Modern Ages. Should we take for granted that comics are so diverse, diffuse, and mainstream now that maybe marking eras like that will be impossible/irrelevant? Or what about calling it a “Spectrum Age” where all that can really be taken for granted is the diversity?” (Paul actually had a long article he’d written about this that wasn’t accessible when Jeff tried to read it beforehand but it’s up now and it’s a pretty great read that makes a pretty compelling argument.)  Discussed:  Our less compelling arguments.
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1:41:18-1:44:53:  John Kim asks, “There are a lot of resets to the status quo in comic (Spiderman, Batman) after said comics try something different. Are the reasons for the resets mainly fan backlash and low sales? Here I am trying to sneak in another question… Are there any good legacy characters in comics?”  Discussed:  Wally West, Wally West, and Wally West; Batman: Year Zero; and more.
1:44:53-1:57:46:  Lewis Smith asks, “Of all the aborted story-lines, new directions, and false starts you guys have read in superhero comics, what was the one you really wanted to see play out?”  Discussed:  Firestorm as a fire elemental; Steve Englehart’s Fantastic Four and West Coast Avengers runs; the Amazing Spider-Man and headcanon; does Marvel need a reboot; and more.
1:57:46-2:08:12:  Ed Corcoran asks, “In a couple of previous episodes, you’ve mentioned the effect the library market has on how trade paperback collections are made and marketed. Can you talk a little more about the economics of that? What kind of comics rely so heavily on libraries? What do libraries look for? Also, are there any plans to collect the Avengers read-through into one big mega-episode?” We’ve tied this in with Drew Meger who asks, “It feels like every episode we hear a mention of some comic or other borrowed from your local library. As a librarian who buys comics for his library, I need to know: What comic titles would you want to see in your Ideal Library? Should we focus on the critical Top 10 list darlings and easy entry points for new readers or should we go obscure and get the titles readers might have been interested in, But not 30 dollar hardbound trade interested?” Discussed: how little we actually know about the economics of graphic novels and the library market; Kate Beaton, Vertical, Fantagraphics, Drawn and Quarterly and Pantheon; a bad maritime metaphor from Jeff, and more.
Celestials2:08:12-2:15:48:  Paul Spence asks, “Would the Whatnauts offer their views on Kirby’s Marvel series The Eternals. I read The Eternals for the first time this year courtesy of marvel Unlimited and it provoked a mixed response from me. The mythology appeared to be Fourth World Lite mashed up with some of the ideas from Kirby’s 2001, and a serving from Erich Von Daniken’s Chariots of the Gods. The Fourth World of the New Gods becomes the Fourth Host of the Eternals and DC’s Orion becomes Ikaris in The Eternals. This does appear to be a case where Kirby was recycling ideas. My second Kirby related question pertains to the Joe Casey penned Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers. You covered the early issues in the series on the podcast and expressed both hope, and some trepidation, that it could be a masterpiece, or it could become a train wreck. Now that the mini-series has finished what do you think of the entire run?”  Discussed:  The Eternals by Jack Kirby, and Joe Casey’s Captain Victory and the Galactic Rangers; and not much more.
2:15:48-2:22:55: Louie Whitford asks, “Why didn’t Eclipse or First Comics survive? Or: What’s your favorite Eclipse series?”  Discussed:  quick shout-outs for books like Badger, Aztec Ace by Doug Moench and Dan Day; Alec by Eddie Campbell; Sabre by Don McGregor and Billy Graham; Destroyer Duck by Jack Kirby and Steve Gerber; the end of First and Eclipse; and so on.
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2:22:55-2:33:01:  Michael Loughlin asks, “1) In your opinion, what recent comics (2000s & 2010s) will be regarded as classics in the future? 2) Of all the writers who never worked with him, which writer would have made a good scripter for Jack Kirby? Feel free to choose one of his contemporaries or a current writer.”   Discussed;  our weird handwringing about the term “classic,” Al Ewing’s Loki and Kieron Gillen’s Journey Into Mystery; Bryan Lee O’Malley’s Scott Pilgrim; and more.
2:33:01-end: Closing comments!  Due to some crazy real-life events, I’ve cut out our talk of upcoming episodes and gone straight to Graeme telling you where you can find us on the Internet.  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! Tumblr!  And, of course, on Patreon where, as of this count, 109 patrons make this whole thing possible! Speaking of which, Jeff has an apology that, thanks to an incisive email from Steve H, we have been tardy in providing the “recommend a book for us to read” perk to long-time patrons. We are in the process of getting organized and it is coming….soon!
http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat184.mp3
Whew!  Okay, so we hope you enjoy this episode, keep an eye on this space for what’s coming next, and remember: keep reading those comic books—you never know when you’re going to spend two and a half hours talking about them!
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