http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat216.mp3 0:00-34:58: Greetings, and wishes for a happy new year!  Believe it or not, we are super-hasty in this part and in literally less than a minute we are discussing….Rogue One: A Star Wars Story!…

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0:00-7:06: Greetings!  Because Jeff is an idiot, we lost the first hour and sixteen minutes of our recording.  So today’s episode will be comparatively short and it starts up with us telling you what you missed. It’s a surprisingly complete summary of seventy-six minutes jammed into six.  Discussion of what we discussed:  Batman Day (which this episode was recorded on), Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice; Injection by Warren Ellis and Declan Shalvey; 2000 A.D. Prog. 2000; Suicide Squad #2 by Rob Williams, Jim Lee, and Ivan Reis; Jeff’s admiration for Superwoman #2 and Graeme’s for Supergirl; Detective Comics and Chris Claremont’s New Mutants; All-Star Batman #2; and Tom King’s Batman, which is where we catch up, since Graeme has to reiterate his point about…

batmantomking7:06-32:23: Tom King and the connection between The Vision and Sheriff of Babylon (which King has described as being part of an unofficial trilogy with his Omega Men), and how it connects to the first six issues we’ve read of Batman.  Also discussed: Alan Moore and Alan Moore’s Jerusalem; the promotional interviews with Alan Moore for Alan Moore’s Jerusalem; what would be the non-comic related questions we would ask Alan Moore; and mo(o)re.

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32:23-36:13:  Jeff wanted to talks about Moon Knight #6 by Jeff Lemire, Wilfredo Torres, Francesco Francavilla, and James Stokoe (!) where Lemire finally has a take on the character that really works for Jeff.
36:13-38:16: Jeff does a loose compare/contrast between Moon Knight and the first issue of Doom Patrol by Gerard Way, Nick Derington, and Tamra Bonvilliain.  A good fun book with some absolutely lovely art by Derington and colors by Bonvillain.

countnefariavsquirrelgirl38:16-57:25: Jeff also wants to give a shout-out to latest issue of Unbeatable Squirrel Girl with fill-in art by Jacob Chabot and another crazily strong script by Ryan North.  And after that, we talk a bit about North’s first issue of Jughead (which sounds *amazing*), which leads us to a not-thrilled impression of Zdarsky’s Howard The Duck, Marvel and hip-hop and much more.
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57:25-1:07:55: Also read and also (lightly) discussed:  The Fix #5 by Nick Spencer and Steve Lieber; Paper Girls #9 by Brian K. Vaughan, Cliff Chiang, Matt Wilson and Jared K. Fletcher; Saga by Vaughan and Staples; old issues of Ms. Marvel written by Chris Claremont; and more.

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1:07:55-1:11:33:  Sad to say, either Graeme did most of the talking in our lost hour, or maybe Jeff was out of control there too, but Jeff does too much talking this episode, even if it’s for a good cause like showing some love for the insane “Prisoners of Three Worlds” story from 1963’s Batman #153, by Bill Finger, Henry Boltinoff, Jack Schiff and Sheldon Moldoff, recently purchased during Comixology’s Road to Batman Day Sale.
1:11:33-1:15:02: I can’t adequately describe how we got to discussing Denny O’Neil’s career as writer and editor, a case Jeff tries to make by incorrectly assigning at least two Batman characters’ first appearances to the wrong era.
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1:15:02-1:19:10:
Graeeme has some wonderful stuff to tell us about Books With Pictures, a great little comic book store in Portland, Oregon with a back issue drawer curated by Douglas Wolk, as well as the back issues he, Graeme, picked up from said drawer.  Mentioned: Heroes and Legends; the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special from 1995; Superman’s Girl Friend, Lois Lane issue #115; Superman and Batman: Heroes Against Hunger; and the zines from our colleagues Jay and Miles.
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1:19:10-end: Closing comments! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast.

Next week:  Baxter Building Ep. 21! Read issues #184-200 of the first volume of The Fantastic Four and deconstruct them with us!  We will see you then!
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http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts/WaitWhat205.mp3 0:00-18:26: Greetings from Portland! More specifically, greetings from a basement in Portland!  And to run it into the ground, greetings from a basement in Portland where Jeff and Graeme both are at the same…

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0:00-05:25: Greetings! Graeme and I are still recovering from our version of Civil War—the DC Rebirth #1 roundtable from just a few days back.  Fortunately, Graeme knows just what it takes to heal the wounds of battle: a story about  his friendly nieghborhood Chatty Cat!  (Chatty Cat No. 2, no less!)

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05:25-12:51:  From Chatty Cat No. 2, to comics we’ve read this week.  Jeff has not read much—although he quite liked Revenger and the Fog #2—and Graeme has read a lot, but some of it is still under embargo (for those of you that are wondering, no, Graeme did not go on to tell Jeff about the books off-air).  So instead we kinda bitch a bit about the difficulty of keeping track of what you’ve read on Marvel Unlimited and Comixology.  Discussed: what percentage of Graeme’s Comixology In Progress list is for work; Jack Katz’s First Kingdom; and spending hours in school drawing barbarian arms.
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12:51-30:03:  Speaking of squandering precious time, Jeff has been playing Marvel Future’s Fight on his iPad, but before he can get to the point of something he finds quite sad, we have to get through a brief history of RPGs, Diablo, and free to play games.  Discussed:  who the hell is Singularity; all of the above, plus the absence of The Fantastic Four and The X-Men; and Graeme having read Contest of Champions and loving it but being art-blocked on New Avengers; all those teams featuring Johnny Storm; and a moment of lovely humanity, courtesy of Gene Yang.

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Cap sketch by Cameron Stewart, modified slightly on Twitter.

30:03-48:00: We have listener questions!  And we do want to answer them, we assure you, but Jeff also kinda wants to talk about Hydra Cap, the big reveal that somehow managed to outshine—or at least consume as much internet chatter—DC’s big reveal in DC Rebirth #1.  Discussed:  Old school Hydra; The MCU’s Hydra and people’s conception of the Marvel characters; Ed Brubaker’s Captain America run; what will happen to Alan Scott in post-Rebirth; and more.
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48:00-49:40: “Graeme, are we ever going to get to listener’s questions?” asks Jeff.  Fortunately, we are!  Thomas Williams asks: “I’ve always wanted to know what Graeme thought of the last page ending of Archer and Armstrong. I thought it’s one of the best last pages of a series.”
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49:40-59:55: Ahmed Bhuiyan says:  “You guys have come a long way, I remember back in the day when the first half hour of each episode seemed to be you guys comparing juice fasts/cleanses. I kind of miss those to be honest. Anyways, on to questions! Answer as many or as few as you like of course.
1. Is the concept of a shared universe hurting or helping comics these days?
2. What work of Jack Kirby wouldn’t you recommend? (Thanks to you all and the Baxter Building segments I have been trolling eBay for the Fourth World Omnibii…only volume 2 left!)
3. Why are you two so awesome? Seriously, funny, insightful, and pretty relatable, despite how pretty hardcore do you analyze the story/creator, love it!
Keep up the great work guys, stay well, and tell Graeme to relax more and send Jeff some waffles, we haven’t had a Waffle Window update in ages it feels!”
59:55-1:13:31:  Adam Knave throws us this hypothetical: “You need to put people on the dc rebirth books. You can’t change the titles themselves, only creative teams. What are a few of your choices? (Besides giving me Super Sons, obviously…)”
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1:13:31-1:23:59:  Gary Katselas (LeonK) asks : “Gentlemen, it seems I’m one of the few people who enjoyed ‘Man of Steel’ and ‘Batman Vs Superman’ more than Marvel’s many film offerings, including the recently released ‘Civil War’ which has garnered widespread acclaim among mainstream critical circles. This irks me slightly because I am most assuredly a Marvel fanboy and I find their conservative production approach too constrictive to produce interesting results. I much prefer the operatic pretensions of ‘Batman vs Superman’ and the troubling uncertainty that was injected into the Superman mythos in ‘Man of Steel’ (as well as numerous moments of sheer filmmaking insanity). Which brings me to my question: having read very little in the way of DC comics, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on what comic series or storylines (Superman, Batman or otherwise) most closely match these films in tone and thematic concern?”

1:23:59-1:29:21:  Devin King asks:  “My question: Why is Watchmen a bad movie? I know its reputation but can’t find any critical responses to it. I know the common reaction was that it tries too hard to emulate the book but…isn’t that supposed to be a good thing?”

1:29:21-1:34:35:  Check this out from Heath Edwards:  “Hey fellas, super huge congratulations on getting the 200th episode! If I may suggest a topic for discussion:
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Inhumans = generation hashtag
How do the different methods of the mutants /inhumans getting their powers inform today’s readers of their own methods of empowerment?
Mutants gain their powers genetically (internal), whereas the inhumans gain their powers from the terrigen mists (external).
The mutants have no choice in their empowerment: “I was born this way”
Though, I can’t remember if there hasn’t been a story about subconscious choice being a part of the empowerment of the inhumans: “I am shy, I shall be a window” type thing
How, if at all, do these ideas play into contemporary empowerment?”
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1:34:35-1:42:09:  Hey it’s Gar Berner!  And he asks: “I just wanted to wish you two continued success on the podcast and your other endeavors and that I’m looking forward to the next 200!
My probably late question is:
Which Legionnnaire (from the Legion of Super Heroes, not the French army) do you most identify with?
The lack of Legion support by DC Comics is sad. Granted, it’s a concept a bit past it’s prime as you both mentioned. There is some angle or 2016 twist that needs to be unlocked for the LSH to be the success that it should.”
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1:42:09-2:01:01:  Here comes Levi Tompkins, you guys!  Levi has four big questions for us:
Q1 You guys have talked a lot about some of the weirdness that guys like Englehart, Claremont, and even Shooter have brought to comics do to their own particular sexual ideals and hangups.  Do you think that modern big 2 comics has divorced itself from that sort of thing, and if so do you think its better off for it?
(As someone who has been rather warped by things read in Claremont comics and other places as a kid its one of those things I think about a lot)
Q2 What would Modern Marvel events be like under people like Englehart or Kirby.  What would a Kirby Event look like?
Q3  With the Gotham Academy Lumberjanes crossover coming, any other non big two books you think it would be interesting to have crossover with the Marvel or DC?
Q4 Who are your favorite new Big 2 characters.  I find myself really adoring some of the newer X-characters, or Gotham Academy kids, any people from the last 10 years you adore and think could last?”
2:01:01-2:01:55: Maybe not a question per se, but Bruce Baugh has a beautiful white-hot burn:
“What we need is a little Wait What app that would grab from a list of Jeff’s favorite favorite nouns, with audio of him saying them, and drop into sentences of the podcast as needed. So when Jeff says “It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to, but not fully until the DC, yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for, hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in…”, We’d get “”It’s not just Kirby, though, so much as, well, his approach to [recontextualization], but not fully until the DC [collection], yeah no, it also appears, or least I think it’s suggested in some of the coloring for [Don Heck], hmm, yes, him and also some of the others who were in [editorial]…”
2:01:55-2:06:29:  And here’s the matching “question” from long-time chum of the podcast Robert Grzech:
“In light of the critical failure of BvS and Graeme’s on-air lukewarm reception and off-air distaste for the latest Captain America movie, I’m truly curious as to what your opinions are as to what exactly makes for a good comic book movie?
What are your expectations? Graeme doesn’t like Marvel in general so he’s not exactly the audience for Marvel movies. This makes me wonder why Graeme even went to Captain America, especially if he knew what he was going to get and went into it with what sounds like a predisposition to hating the movie. And if Graeme didn’t like Captain America, what exactly would he have done differently?  What would have made the movie work for him? I thought the movie was far better than the comic book version of Civil War. I realize this is all subjective, but Graeme’s shock (shock, I say!) that any reasonable person would like Captain America was frankly insulting. All he had to say was he didn’t like it because he’s Graeme.
I paid $5.95 to watch Captain America at a Saturday matinee. $5.95 for a 2 hour movie!  I was highly entertained. I’ve bought floppies for almost that much, which I’ve read in 10 minutes before throwing them into the garbage can. And no, it’s not 2 hours out of my life. I don’t want those 2 hours back or I wouldn’t have gone in the first place. I look at these movies as comic books brought to life, and Marvel does a decent job of staying true to the characters. If the characterizations are to be criticized because they seem stilted or cartoonish or underdeveloped, that’s because these are comic book characters!
If they had made these movies back when we were kids, we would have gone crazy. Yeah, I know, the technology would have sucked and the early Captain America movie was an obvious example of that. These movies are comic books brought to life. That’s how I look at them. Some are harder to watch than others (Fantastic Four and Green Lantern, I’m looking at you), but generally they have met and at times, exceeded my expectations. I’m not looking for The Godfather or Annie Hall here. Just entertainment for a few dollars.
Why so serious?
Relax and enjoy them or stay home.”
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2:06:29-2:22:22:  Chad Nevett, here is your question!  (Also, I apologize for being an absolute idiot!):  “I just finished your 200th episode and have a question for episode 201: I don’t remember either of you ever saying much about John Constantine or Hellblazer (maybe you did and I forgot or didn’t hear it, because I rarely listen — not because I don’t enjoy the podcast, purely because wife, kid, job, sleep, and everything else gets in the way), but what are your thoughts on the character/comics?”
2:22:22-end: Closing Comments!  You can tell Jeff is tired when you hear him go straight to the closing without the comments!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to our125 supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
NEXT WEEK:  is a skip week! Let your ears rest and recover, and then join us for Wait, What? Ep. 202!
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0:00-4:56: Greetings! and again!  And…again!
4:56-1:10:47: So, with that little bit of stupidity out of the way, on to the more serious stuff and part of the reason we decided it was worth bumping the Baxter Building by a day or two in or to discuss this:  last week, Shelly Bond was fired from her position at Vertigo.  And not long after that, to point out the frustration with one of the few female editors in power in the U.S. comics industry being fired, someone pointed out that, by contrast, DC editor Eddie Berganza was still working with the company despite his history as a serial sexual harasser.
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Now, I’m not going to recap Graeme’s recap, or sum up the discussion he and I go on to have about both bits of news, but I should definitely link to Abhay’s excellent post about the Berganza situation, not least because I hadn’t read it before I talked to Graeme and I make several, if not most, of the asshole moves he specifically thinks could stupidly hinder the public discussion of the topic.
That said—with probably far less of an apology than I really should be offering—here is Graeme and I talking about the situation for an hour (with not nearly enough about the death of Prince, which upset Graeme and gutted me).
Discussed:  the firing of Shelly Bond, Eddie Berganza’s history as a serial sexual harasser; a woman who was sexually harassed and almost raped by a Senior Art Director from DC; Nathan Edmondson; Scott Allie; Brian Wood; complicity; responsibility; power and powerlessness; Alex Nieto and D”Paris Williams; Julius Schwartz; DC ICU; stories being killed; videogame journalism; reality TV; and much, much more.
1:10:47-end:  Closing Comments!  We have closing comments for you! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr!  Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 119 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
COMING SOON: Baxter Building Episode 16!  Really!  Very, very soon!
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Oh, man.  I apologize right now if the audio file you get sounds weird, you guys:  for some reason, the first ten seconds kept cutting out on me over and over and over so trying to solve that may have been too taxing for my limited skills. I was able to get it to work but now there’s a two second delay between when I finish introducing and Graeme & I start gabbing.  You’ll forgive me, right?

Anyway, enough with the preemptive apologizing, let’s get to the purely emptive apologizing—show notes!

0:00-3:51: Greetings! And chores!
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3:51-45:02:  Batman v. Superman v. Jeff v. Graeme! And yet, that is not entirely true, whatnauts, as you’ll find out when we delve into the film.  FULL SPOILERS in that we talk about all the “plot” twists and reveals in the movie.  But us being us, we also talk about the three points where Graeme laughed inappropriately, the parts that he loved, why Jeff thought about the Avengers, why Graeme thought of Wile E. Coyote, the best joke in the movie, why does Bruce Wayne lose his shit during the apocalyptic car commercial, which one of us thought of the film as “flaming car wreck of a film, but totally enjoyable,” the most suspenseful moment of the film for Jeff, Wonder Woman, the crazy second week drop in box office earnings, how much of BvS:DoJ was a Zack Snyder movie, and how much of it was a Warners/DC movie;  and more.
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45:02-48:43: In fact, we’re still talking BvS:DoJ but I thought I’d throw in a break in the ol’ time stamp since we change topic to talk (briefly) about the Suicide Squad reshoot rumors, and whether all the positive response to Wonder Woman will mean to a lot more studio meddling in the Wonder Woman movie.
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48:43-57:39: Back to BvS:DoJ.  “Would you recommend [the movie] to people?” asks Graeme.  Discussed:  John Romita, Jr., Nabokov’s Lolita, Jesse Eisenberg’s Luthor, the missing footnote from the movie, Luthor’s top-notch attention to folder logos, and more.
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57:39-1:09:26:  Graeme pivots away from BvS:DoJ to talk about the antidote to that film—the Flash/Supergirl crossover episode, but Jeff hasn’t seen it so the convo is pretty truncated and so we move on to some of Graeeme’s reservations about Captain America: Civil War. Discussed: when friends fight; when superheroes fight; when screenwriters fight; when wrestlers fight; when superhero movie trailers fight; and the last shot of BvS:DoJ  (like I said FULL SPOILERS).
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1:09:26-1:34:18:  And with that, our Batman vs. Superman talk is done.  Now it’s time to talk about I Hate The Internet by friend of the podcast Jarett Kobek.   Discussed:  how much we love the book; how we appear in the book; Kurt Vonnegut and Breakfast of Champions; Philip K. Dick; literature vs. the internet; The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy; the ghost of Jack Kirby; Jeff wound up by Jarett; books promising you one thing and giving you another (pros and cons); collapsing narratives and lessons to the reader; the “I Hate The Internet” bot on Twitter; and more.
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1:34:18-1:57:09:  “So, Graeme, should we talk about, like, comic book comic books?” asks Jeff and Graeme decides to meet him halfway by discussing the Rebirth press conference.  Discussed:  The bittersweet return of Greg Rucka; wondering about the whereabouts of Tom Taylor and Brendan Fletcher; a rumor about the previous Batgirl team with a countering rumor; Hope Larson on Batgirl; the non-announced team of The Super Sons, and some worries about the biweekly publishing schedule; DC taking pages from the Marvel playbook after the Marvel playbook has stopped working in the marketplace; Dan Jurgens on Action; Tom King on Batman; the pairing of art teams on the biweekly titles; the rumored creative team for The Super Sons; and more.
1:57:09-2:05:39: Almost a non-sequitur:  Jeff liked the second issue of Power Man & Iron Fist by David Walker and Sanford Greene much more than the first issue.  And Graeme has been reading the first two volumes of the JSA Omnibus by David Goyer, Geoff Johns, Stephen Sadowski, Leonard Kirk, Don Kramer and many more.  Discussed: The Geoff Johns influence, the Scott Snyder influence, Graeme and Matt Terl being butts; Graeme reading every appearance of Captain Britain between his first appearance and Excalibur.  Wow, right?  Look for that as a Wait, What? essay appearing near you!
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2:05:39-2:12:42: Closing Comments!  We have closing comments for you! Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr (where Graeme posted a really fantastic little Spider-Man story by Hannah Blumenreich.  If you haven’t seen it already, you should check it out)!
Our special thanks to the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios for their continuing support of this podcast, as well as our continuing special thanks to the Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy…and to all 119 of our supporters on Patreon who make all this possible.
2:12:42-end:  But!  Before we leave—Graeme hunts down the description of this podcast from I Hate The Internet to share it with you all.  Because, yes, we are exactly that vain, sadly enough.
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NEXT WEEK: Uh, well, funny thing about that—because of ECCC (yay!) we’re going to have to take another skip week (booo!). But join us in two weeks for the next Baxter Building (yay!) where we discuss Fantastic Four issues #126-133 (booo! probably, though I admit I haven’t read them yet.)
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