0:00-30:49: Greetings! And greetings! And greetings!  It’s been a while so we decide to talk a bit about our delay which leads into the epic story of one brave man’s battle against one of nature’s deadliest threats: snow.  We invite you to, as George Michael would say, listen without prejudice (volume one) to the kind of super heroics regular people have to engage in every day (or at least one day, during one of their three day business trips). Also discussed: the Jaws movies, Dennis Quaid’s moviemaking choices during the 80s (with an odd black-out by Skype during part of that); what’s a better movie, Innerspace or Ghostbusters; more stories about Jaws, and more.
30:49-43:27: Can we talk about comic books now?  Well, hmmm.  How about we compromise and talk about what’s the best possible comic book adaptation of a movie: Marvel’s adaptation of Jaws 2? Or the comic book adaptation of 1941? Or Jim Steranko’s adaptation of Outland? Or Blade Runner? Star Wars? Or maybe just the cover to Star Wars #4?
43:27-1:18:39: Comic book news!  Every once in a while we talk about comic book news:  Sales figures for Marvel? Looney Toons vs. DC? (at 1:04:51) and more!
1:18:39-1:32:37: Thanks to Graeme, we finally get around to talking about some comics that comes out recently—and by recent, I’m not even talking about “this decade” or “this century,” but “this week”! After a bit of talk about the transition of Superman back to being your dad, to discussing Super Sons #1, Inhumans vs. X-Men #1, and more about Super Sons #1.
 
1:32:37-2:03:07: We also talk about The Wild Storm #1, and Matt Terl’s interesting review right here on the site,   but ONLY after spending lot of time talking about Marvel’s New Universe because that’s the kind of sad old nerds we are.  And there’s also some talk about Neil Gaiman and Catwoman too, because that’s the kind of laser-like focus we’re capable of bringing to our discussion of comic books.
2:03:07-2:20:59: “Jeff, we’re at two hours,” Graeme says, mostly accurately. “Just tell me the other comics that you’ve read and tell me if you liked them or didn’t.  Go!”  Mentioned far too briefly: Slasher #1 by Charles Forsman and Floating World Comics; 4 Kids Walk Into A Bank #1-3, Suicide Squad #11, Love is Love TPB, Guy Colwell’s Inner City Romance TPB, Monthly Girls’ Nozaki-Kun vols. 1 & 2 (thank you, Jacinda!), and Duck Avenger #0-3, Juni Ito’s Cat Diary: Yon & Mu, Vol. 1; All-Star Comics and the entire run of Super Friends, Batwoman Rebirth #1, Jughead by issues of Zdarsky and North; Justice League of America by Steve Orlando and Ivan Reis; Kamandi Challenge #2, Divinity #3, the IDW relaunch of ROM; and more.
2:20:59-end:  Closing comments! But first:  We make a plan for a January podcast episode!  Look for us on  Stitcher! Itunes! Twitter together and separately: Graeme and Jeff! MattTumblr,  and  on Patreon where a wonderful group of people make this all possible, including the kind crew at American Ninth Art Studios and Empress Audrey, Queen of the Galaxy, to whom we are especially grateful for their continuing support of this podcast. If you like a lot of bonus end-of-the-cast content, it takes a while for us to run out of steam.
Next week:  Next week is another Wait, What? Just like this only better (we hope!  God, do we hope…)
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16 comments on “Wait, What? Ep. 218: Lester’s Sense of Snow

  1. Jeff Lester Feb 19, 2017

    And if you need the link for your cutting and pasting needs:

    http://theworkingdraft.com/media/podcasts2/WaitWhat218.mp3

  2. Rob G Feb 19, 2017

    George Bernard Shaw was great as Quint in Jaws.

    • Jeff Lester Feb 19, 2017

      I can’t tell you how bummed out I was Graeme didn’t catch that.

  3. RE: The Wild Storm and Ellis’s Wilstorm work, I always felt that The Authority was a sublimated version of Stormwatch and Planetary the residue. And, ok, both of them are purer versions of a concept, better produced graphically, but I liked the mix much more than the elements in isolation. I liked the over-the-top superheroics MIXED with the archaeology of a fictional world and conspiracies and Ellis’ take on mainstay fictional tropes and characters. There was a very enjoyable tension there. Planetary and The Authority are much better product (easier to market and fit into a niche without friction thanks to their polish), but I’m not sure they’re better “art”.

  4. Bill Beechler Feb 20, 2017

    If I remember correctly, Michael Caine couldn’t attend the ceremony and personally receive his Oscar for “Hannah and Her Sisters” BECAUSE he was filming “Jaws: The Revenge”. As he says in one of his autobiographies…if the money and the location is right, he doesn’t even read the script.

    • daustin Feb 22, 2017

      You know the famous Michael Caine quote about Jaws The Revenge: “”I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific!””

      And that Thursday snowfall in NY that so freaked out Jeff was absolutely glorious, closed work, day sledding and snowball fighting with the kids.

  5. Zaragosa Feb 20, 2017

    As someone who has owned a copy of “Smilla’s Sense of Snow” for many years (though I have not read it), “Lester’s Sense of Snow” made me snort with glee. Great opening digression, guys!

    Also, I haven’t finished the whole ep yet, but regarding the original New Universe: wasn’t the overarching high concept behind it all simply, “What if superheroes existed in the REAL world?” Sounds so quaint now. “Real,” meaning more grounded, naturalistic, and lacking in the generally fantastical vibe of so much of the normal MU.

  6. Great discussion as always, gents.

    I’m not here to endorse the New 52 retcon of Wonder Woman, but I was struck by how poorly some of the details of it have shifted in Graeme’s memory. Zeus absolutely did not rape Hippolyta in the Azzarello/Chiang version. Their relationship was shown to be a passionate and consensual, if impermanent, love affair between equals. Cliff Chiang’s art was almost comedic in its clarity: Hippolyta was on top.

    I think Graeme must be thinking of another of Azzarello’s radical revisions that provoked a good deal of legitimate criticism, the idea that the Amazons went to sea each generation to rape sailors in order to reproduce.

    Also, could either of you elaborate on your use of the term “neckbeard”? I take it that it’s derogatory, but Internet searches have failed to inform me which particular traits lead to the designation, and how those traits relate to a man’s shaving habits. Asking for a friend.

    Oh, and perhaps you could relate the term to the seemingly adjacent “fatbeard,” and suggest any non-gendered equivalents.

  7. ‘Monthly Girls’ Nozaki-Kun’ mention! LOVE that series. It’s hilarious. The anime was sadly very shortlived but it was just as enjoyable. Only problem is its a super-quick read and you’re left wanting more by the time you reach the end of currently translated volumes. Juni Ito’s ‘Cat Diary’ is also a favorite. Another hilarious manga.

    Also enjoyed the discussion on ‘The Wild Storm.’ I tend to side with Matt on this; not so much out of any kind of affection for the characters but because I wanted this to be something it…just wasn’t. It wasn’t a bad comic by any means, just not one I pictured in my head based on Ellis’ text pieces and the expectations really affected my reading of it.

    But hey, never read New Universe and now I desperately want to do so. Those comics, based on you guys’ discussion, sound absolutely awful. I am not ashamed to admit I enjoy the truly abysmal every now and then — sounds perfect for it. (although Inhumans vs. X-men is a bridge too far even for me. I’ll just wait on the unfortunately spelled Resurrection follow-up whenever it starts)

    • Paul Spence Feb 24, 2017

      Thanks to Jeff’s comments on the podcast, and your post above, I bought the first volume of Monthly Girls’ Nozaki-Kun on Comixology for $2.99. I have to agree that it is a charming and funny series. I am impressed with how Izumi Tsubaki takes the traditional four panel gag strip and uses it to develop character and story throughout the entire book.

    • daustin Feb 27, 2017

      Star Brand was a fascinating dumpster fire, and Spitfire was some really weak tea (though I had every issue), but DP7 was legitimately good, and frequently went in unexpected directions. Remember reading those as a kid and having an “Oh come on now” reaction when the last issues suddenly claimed to be “32 in a 32 Issue Miniseries.”

  8. Mike Murdock Feb 21, 2017

    Thanks for talking more about New Universe. It’s something I barely know anything about but Hickman and Ewing referencing them makes me want to know more. It’s probably the closest I can get to a kid from earlier eras seeing something referenced and having to fill in my own blanks on what it’s about (since only Starbrand is on Marvel Unlimited, to my knowledge).

    I think Spectacular Spider-Man is the nice way to tell Dan Slott to leave. Essentially, they’ll let him keep writing but quietly hope that the new book with the new writer starts getting a lot of attention and Dan Slott takes the hint.

  9. Gonzo_The_Great Feb 22, 2017

    Appreciated both your discussion of the Wild Storm and Matt’s stellar review. Jeff’s comment that he didn’t have any great affection or affinity for the characters is important to consider when analyzing the book.

    I don’t think anyone has great affinity or affection for the Wildstorm characters in and of themselves. Instead, part of their allure was that they were all buckets of common superhero tropes mashed together and painted onto a canvas that lacked the rigid rules of the Big 2 and the ever present in Big 2 comics inertia pulling the characters back to the status quo.

    No book displays this concept better than Ellis’ Authority, wherein all of the cast members are mere mirror images of readily identifiable Big-2 characters set free in a giant issue of What-If. That’s not to in any way disparage Wildstorm. I love Wildstorm. But, it explains why was left cold by the Wild Storm. By “reinventing” characters whose primary trait was that they were reinventions of existing characters, I fear Ellis is making a copy of a copy of a copy. Put more simply, I’m just not sure anyone cared about Zealot enough that they care to see her reinvented. Instead, to the extent people cared about Zealot I suspect it was mostly because she was Wonder Woman reinvented through the lens of Jim Lee-era X-Men.

    • Mike Loughlin Feb 23, 2017

      “I don’t think anyone has great affinity or affection for the Wildstorm characters in and of themselves.”

      Absolutely! The “remix” factor you wrote about was a big part of the appeal. The other major factor was the creators. I remember reading WildCATs for the Jim Lee art. When that wasn’t enough, he brought is Chris Claremont, James Robinson, Travis Charest, and Alan freaking Moore. Soon after, we had Ellis & Raney on Stormwatch, then Hitch, Casey, Brubaker, Phillips, Cassaday, Nguyen, etc. Wildstorm survived thanks to the talents of its creative teams, amazing when you think that it started as “X-Men guy doing X-Men ripoffs.

    • ”Put more simply, I’m just not sure anyone cared about Zealot enough that they care to see her reinvented. Instead, to the extent people cared about Zealot I suspect it was mostly because she was Wonder Woman reinvented through the lens of Jim Lee-era X-Men.”

      I think you nailed it. The WildStorm (and most other ripoff/tribute) characters allowed some superhero archetypes to go to some lengths (aesthetic, thematic, narrative) they couldn’t really explore in their original form.

      You’re getting the Jim Lee or Alan Moore or Joe Casey idea of X-Men without much of the baggage.

  10. Corman's Inferno Feb 22, 2017

    Hey Jeff, whenever you feel the need to dip into new manga, Jitsu Wa Watashi Wa (or as it’s unfortunately known here in the US, My Monster Secret) is fun. It’s about a guy who’s terrible at keeping secrets becoming the confidant of shonen-ized high school versions of classic monsters (vampires, werewolves, saucermen, etc.). It more than lives up to the ridiculousness of its premise, but it has a surprisingly sincere and adorable romance at the heart of it.

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